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Sorry another A/O rules question...

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  • Sorry another A/O rules question...

    Ok simple question
    Want to show my horse in the A/O's, also have a lease horse- can I also show him in 'open' classes? (Not Adult or non-pro ones) Or nothing at all since I don't own him?

  • #2
    Janet will probably chime in here. I "believe" that you are fine to show the lease horse in non A/O divisions (i.e. open hunter, etc). You may only show horses you or your family own in the A/O division as you know. I think the rule change going into effect at the end of 2009 will prevent A/O's from riding any horses owned by others at a competition and then riding in the A/O division....but that MAY only pertain to the A/O jumpers. I cannot remember the exact ruling - but I know the new rule goes into effect at the end of 2009.
    http://good-times.webshots.com/album/557433725gtOAuC

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    • #3
      If you show your horse, that you own, in the A/O hunters you can't show anything else at the same horse show that you or a family member don't own. So the answers is no.

      Comment


      • #4
        What was the purpose of this rule change? If someone owns a 3'6" horse and a greenie, that can only do the 3' divisions... they can't show their own 3' horse in a 3' class if they are showing an A/O hunter?

        You can't ride a jumper that you don't own in another division? What if you have a leased jumper and want to show in the AA jumpers and own an A/O hunter?

        That rule doesn't make any sense. Are the horse shows trying to reduce numbers even more so they don't exist anymore?

        One of a Kind Studio
        Fine Art Paintings, Horses, Dogs, Wildlife and anything else that inspires.

        New convert to the cow horse world.. love my QH mare.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by La Gringa View Post
          What was the purpose of this rule change? If someone owns a 3'6" horse and a greenie, that can only do the 3' divisions... they can't show their own 3' horse in a 3' class if they are showing an A/O hunter?

          You can't ride a jumper that you don't own in another division? What if you have a leased jumper and want to show in the AA jumpers and own an A/O hunter?

          That rule doesn't make any sense. Are the horse shows trying to reduce numbers even more so they don't exist anymore?


          You can show your own horses in any division you want. If you have a greenie and a A/O horse you can show the greenie in any division and the A/O horse but you just have to own both of them. You can't ride a friend's horse or one you lease for example if you are showing in the A/Os.

          At one point you could do the A/O hunters and an adult jumper that you didn't own but that rule either changed this year OR is slated to change.

          Comment


          • #6
            Here in Zone 5 you can show your AO horse & 1 horse you own or USEF lease in the AAs as well. So I would say that if you have a USEF lease you can show the leased horse & your AO horse as well. Obviously you can't do the lease horse in any "owner" classes, but you could show in the AAs or any open divisions.

            I had questioned USEF when Zone 5 changed their rules (showing in the AOs & a horse you don't own at the same show) & they told me that in this circumstance they consider a USEF lease like an "ownership". Not an ownership to show in the AOs, but an ownership to show in the AAs.

            adding: perhaps this also depends on where you are showing (zone rules) & what you are trying to show in?
            "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

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            • #7
              I concur with some of the others that she cannot show the other horse. This came up during a recent Stewards' Clinic. So the answer is no.

              Comment


              • #8
                What's the point of this rule change? It would seem to take entry fee revenue away from the shows.
                One of a Kind Studio
                Fine Art Paintings, Horses, Dogs, Wildlife and anything else that inspires.

                New convert to the cow horse world.. love my QH mare.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by La Gringa View Post
                  What's the point of this rule change? It would seem to take entry fee revenue away from the shows.
                  What rule change do you speak of??

                  The AO HUNTERS have always stated you couldn't show your horse in the AOs & another horse not owned by you (or your family) at the SAME show. That is nothing new.

                  USEF is now changing the AO JUMPERS to match what has always been the AO HUNTERS rule.
                  "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The rule about showing your horse in A/O and someone else's horse in another division came into effect in the late 60s/early 70s. In the simplest terms, the purpose was to keep amateurs from riding/ showing all their trainer's horses.

                    Carol
                    www.ayliprod.com
                    Equine Photography in the Northeast

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by heartinrye View Post
                      Ok simple question
                      Want to show my horse in the A/O's, also have a lease horse- can I also show him in 'open' classes? (Not Adult or non-pro ones) Or nothing at all since I don't own him?
                      You need to be more specific.

                      Are you talking about the A/O HUNTERS or the A/O JUMPERS? The rules are different.

                      In the A/O HUNTERS, if you show in the A/O HUNTERS (on a horse you (or your family) own) you can compete in other classes on horses you OWN, or horses you LEASE (I THINK the lease has to be registered with the USEF). This came up a few years ago, and that is my understanding of what the USEF office said. Of course, the "open" classes may have their own restrictions. And the USEF may have changed their interpretation.

                      In the A/O JUMPERS there was no such restriction on riding other horses, but that changed on April 1
                      a. An amateur who rides for a person outside of his/her family may not ride in a class restricted to Amateur Owners at the same competition. BOD 1/18/09 Effective 4/1/09
                      Since the wording is the same as the hunters, I assume the interpretation wrt leasing is the same.

                      But in either case, since it depends on the interpretation of "rides for a person outside of his/her family", it would DEFINITELY be worth your while checking directly with the USEF. They won't bite. I have been told that Lori Nelson is the person to talk to about Amateur rules.
                      Janet

                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

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                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Great, thanks Janet.
                        I am leasing a horse to do the Adult Eq/Adult Jumpers on, and I own a horse who is being leased out. I was hoping to take him to a show this summer, and since he (in the past year) has made this transition from amazing jumper to hunter/eq pony I was thinking of taking him into the A/O's just for fun! So if I USEF leased the horse it *might* be ok?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by heartinrye View Post
                          Great, thanks Janet.
                          I am leasing a horse to do the Adult Eq/Adult Jumpers on, and I own a horse who is being leased out. I was hoping to take him to a show this summer, and since he (in the past year) has made this transition from amazing jumper to hunter/eq pony I was thinking of taking him into the A/O's just for fun! So if I USEF leased the horse it *might* be ok?
                          You lost me. You want to show the lease horse in AO stuff? That won't happen even with a USEF lease. Or do you mean your horse is being returned from a lease & you want to show him in the AO?
                          "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Janet, they have not changed the interpretation. I believe you are correct that Lori Nelson is the one to talk to about whether or not you are an amateur. The Horse department or Hunter department are probably the ones the talk to about riding a leased horse. I go with Janet, they won't bite.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What is the penalty for doing this. I think I know of a situation where the person showed her own horse in the A/Os and then showed the trainers client's horses in the suitables at the same show. If that is a violation, what is the penalty?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by LetsChat View Post
                                What is the penalty for doing this. I think I know of a situation where the person showed her own horse in the A/Os and then showed the trainers client's horses in the suitables at the same show. If that is a violation, what is the penalty?
                                That is up to the hearing committee to decide. But the minimum would be to lose all the A/O points at the show where the rules were violated.
                                But you have to file the protest within a certain nubmer of days (see chapter 6 and 7)
                                Last edited by Janet; Apr. 21, 2009, 03:18 PM.
                                Janet

                                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I wasn't going to protest, just curious what the punishment was.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Rule change date

                                    The rule change concerning A/O jumpers has been pushed back to December 1, 2009, as there were too many affected point wise by changing the rule effective April 1. You can read it on the USHJA website.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Cookiewoo View Post
                                      The rule change concerning A/O jumpers has been pushed back to December 1, 2009, as there were too many affected point wise by changing the rule effective April 1. You can read it on the USHJA website.
                                      Where did you find that? It IS in the on line version of the rule book on the USEF web site with the April 1 date.

                                      Not doubting you- I'd just like to know where to find it.

                                      It is a USEF rule, so nothing officially happens until the USEF (not just USHJA) agreees to the delay.
                                      Janet

                                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Giddy-up View Post
                                        You lost me. You want to show the lease horse in AO stuff? That won't happen even with a USEF lease. Or do you mean your horse is being returned from a lease & you want to show him in the AO?
                                        No, sorry, I want to show my horse who I own in the A/O's (he's leased out in barn, with the agreement that I can ride him a little when I'm home, and then they don't have to pay me anything, just all of his bills.) at a few smaller one-day shows (which are USEF rated). As well as show my leased horse in Adult stuff, or open jumpers if necessary. I'll be giving USEF a call just so there is no petition filed!!

                                        Also- if the show ISN'T USEF rated, could I do it? I'll be in CT, so if its CHJA and NEHC rated but not USEF rated could I do this?

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