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Someone talk to me About Show Fees

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  • Someone talk to me About Show Fees

    Okay, I don't get it. I'm used to paying to show, have for a long time. And I know the general spiel, office fees, entry fees, stall fees, all pay for management, judging etc etc etc. But.... a question.

    How is it that our fees are sooo high ( and come on, they are ) and yet prize money is virtually non existent. I talk to friend of mine that rodeo and western show fairly heavily, and they're pretty shocked when I talk about the cost of English showing. Rodeos, barrel races, reining, all somehow manage to be cheaper, and pay back competitors more money. Am I missing something? And being totally serious here.
    You know, if you took this jello, put it in a mold and froze it, you could be like look....an emerald. Dude, I'd kick some guys ass he ever tried to give me a jello ring.

  • #2
    Well, I think it costs a little more to run a nice hunter/jumper show than a barrel race, but I do agree it is time to take a look at why we pay sooo much more. I think prize money mostly comes from sponsorship, and that is hard to get in our sport. The demographic that show jumps is seen as wealthy and exclusive by the general public. Case and point: I was in NYC a couple weeks ago and walked down 5th Ave. and the Juicy Couture window had an "equestrian" themed display going on complete with mannequins in cute little boots and breeches numbers. The rodeo crowd is seen as more down-to-earth, average-Joe, middle-class, accessible to all. More people to market to. Not many in the rodeo crowd that wear Juicy Couture.

    But hey, if they want to sponsor me, I'd be willing to wear one of those outfits on my horse!
    ******
    "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."
    -H.M.E.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Okay realize that there is a point in a higher cost for hunter jumper shows. And rodeo is kind of a whole other ballgame. At least national level rodeo, lots of sponsors etc. But even local rodeo manages to pay out far, far better than we do. And then there's reining, not traditional rodeo, but still managing at least good payouts.
      You know, if you took this jello, put it in a mold and froze it, you could be like look....an emerald. Dude, I'd kick some guys ass he ever tried to give me a jello ring.

      Comment


      • #4
        Horseymamma I think you might have the western gig all wrong. T

        I agree w/ Atypical. H/J shows if you win a grand champion - you get a cooler, Western shows you win champion - sometimes you get a Truck, trailer (w/ living quarters!), saddle etc... So i'm thinking the Western world is doing something...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by gottagrey View Post
          Horseymamma I think you might have the western gig all wrong. T

          I agree w/ Atypical. H/J shows if you win a grand champion - you get a cooler, Western shows you win champion - sometimes you get a Truck, trailer (w/ living quarters!), saddle etc... So i'm thinking the Western world is doing something...
          This is why when I buy my first big $$$ horse I'm buying an AQHA Hunter and winning myself some sweet trailer action.

          THEN i'll buy a nice REAL hunter

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Pirateer View Post
            This is why when I buy my first big $$$ horse I'm buying an AQHA Hunter and winning myself some sweet trailer action.

            THEN i'll buy a nice REAL hunter
            Now we're thinking

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't know, it's a good question. Is it that there are more participants in western and rodeo, so therefore more sponsors? I remember a few years back we went to the 4th of July rodeo in a neighboring small town and the prize money for the barrel race was $15K! And there were 8 riders in it! I might be wiser to train my jumpers to run fast around some barrels!
              ******
              "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."
              -H.M.E.

              Comment


              • #8
                The other world does seem to pay out better; but I think the big payout is excluded to one class at their usually one day event. (with the exception of the world show and congress).

                I am in no way justifying the escalating costs of H/J competition, but I think if you spread out all of the prize money offered throughout the week, or series for each division, including any Grand Prix or Classics, you'll find that our world may very well pay better. (Not sure, haven't done the math!)

                But.. I'll join you in that AQHA hunter class and give you a run for the money over the trailer!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Please don't tell David Conners (Four Winds Farm) that his QHs are not "real" hunters. They win in both rings. Until the H/J crowd loses the elitist image there will never be the kind of support you see at rodeos and racetracks(cars)....they appeal to the emotions of the "common man", those who like to see the "good" guy win and the "bad" guy lose...our riders never interact with the "fans" much less have promotional meet and greets...H/J needs a serious makeover to generate a "gate" and therefor the largess of sponsorships..after all, what is in it for the sponsors to give 50K to a GP when there will be NO ONE there to see their banners and ads except the choir to which they preach?

                  The AQHA has a HUGE national membership and a HUGE grassroots faction, to which they ACTUALLY cater, and therein lies it's popularity...Anyone who thinks they are going to saddle up Prince and go win a truck and trailer has a very rude awakening...the competition is tough. But, they also write checks to the breeders and owners for points won and they have the ROM program which recognizes the accomplishments of ALL QH owners who succeed at ANY level. It is a very good business model that our Federation would do well to emulate.
                  The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pirateer View Post
                    This is why when I buy my first big $$$ horse I'm buying an AQHA Hunter and winning myself some sweet trailer action.

                    THEN i'll buy a nice REAL hunter
                    Originally posted by Horseymama View Post
                    I don't know, it's a good question. Is it that there are more participants in western and rodeo, so therefore more sponsors? I remember a few years back we went to the 4th of July rodeo in a neighboring small town and the prize money for the barrel race was $15K! And there were 8 riders in it! I might be wiser to train my jumpers to run fast around some barrels!
                    I think your both onto something lol.. I have friends that barrel race and I'm always amazed at the paybacks..
                    My mare can turn on a dime and they always told me I should consider barrels with her. I said there was no way I wanted to teach her to be able to run circles that fast! Now I think is should really consider it!
                    Love and Laughter - 2005 TB Mare - Boss Mare
                    Foxfire Lacey - 2007 Half Welsh Superstar
                    New Sensation - 1986- 2014 Love you to the moon and back

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jumphigh83 View Post
                      Please don't tell David Conners (Four Winds Farm) that his QHs are not "real" hunters. They win in both rings. Until the H/J crowd loses the elitist image there will never be the kind of support you see at rodeos and racetracks(cars)....they appeal to the emotions of the "common man", those who like to see the "good" guy win and the "bad" guy lose...our riders never interact with the "fans" much less have promotional meet and greets...H/J needs a serious makeover to generate a "gate" and therefor the largess of sponsorships..after all, what is in it for the sponsors to give 50K to a GP when there will be NO ONE there to see their banners and ads except the choir to which they preach?

                      The AQHA has a HUGE national membership and a HUGE grassroots faction, to which they ACTUALLY cater, and therein lies it's popularity...Anyone who thinks they are going to saddle up Prince and go win a truck and trailer has a very rude awakening...the competition is tough. But, they also write checks to the breeders and owners for points won and they have the ROM program which recognizes the accomplishments of ALL QH owners who succeed at ANY level. It is a very good business model that our Federation would do well to emulate.
                      Great post.

                      I've been to a few reining shows and got my feet wet in the show ring for a year at the AQHA shows. The stands are PACKED for the high light classes. The energy is amazing and it's just as much fun for the spectators as the participants. I remember everyone saying how nice it was that most of the stands were full in Syracuse this last year for the grand prix and such but the reality is that that needs to be EVERY show not just a rare event.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jumphigh83 View Post
                        Please don't tell David Conners (Four Winds Farm) that his QHs are not "real" hunters. They win in both rings. Until the H/J crowd loses the elitist image there will never be the kind of support you see at rodeos and racetracks(cars)....they appeal to the emotions of the "common man", those who like to see the "good" guy win and the "bad" guy lose...our riders never interact with the "fans" much less have promotional meet and greets...H/J needs a serious makeover to generate a "gate" and therefor the largess of sponsorships..after all, what is in it for the sponsors to give 50K to a GP when there will be NO ONE there to see their banners and ads except the choir to which they preach?

                        The AQHA has a HUGE national membership and a HUGE grassroots faction, to which they ACTUALLY cater, and therein lies it's popularity...Anyone who thinks they are going to saddle up Prince and go win a truck and trailer has a very rude awakening...the competition is tough. But, they also write checks to the breeders and owners for points won and they have the ROM program which recognizes the accomplishments of ALL QH owners who succeed at ANY level. It is a very good business model that our Federation would do well to emulate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Back in "the day" I used to ride on the buckskin circuit for a trainer of mine and when I won a class, I won something nice. Something usually in the crystal and silver family. At year end, we won HUGE crystal and silver somethings.

                          When you win year-end awards here you get a big ass ribbon for hunter/jumpers. Or a trophy. Wahoo. Something to collect a butt load of dust!!!

                          I agree with the reasons why the AQHA has better awards. The sponsorship is huge. Wrangler, Dodge, etc. In fact, my neighbor used to be sponsored by Dodge and you'd see him rolling around in two different duallies to his events!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Nice to see...

                            the Western World praised outside for doing something right.

                            I do wonder how the western world-- from dinky to Congres, gaming shows put on cheaply to local team penning (with cattle) and big rodeos with all kinds of rough stock still manage the pay-outs that they do.

                            In terms of encouraging sponsors, losing the elitist image, creating incentives for everyone to join, I think the H/J and Dressage parts of the USEF could learn something from the AQHA. Nice to not be the only one who thinks so! Thanks for posting.

                            Perhaps when enough money has been bled out of the English side of things while people take their weekends and dollars to the QH world, show managers will change. I think "business as usual" can't work anymore, try as they might.
                            The armchair saddler
                            Politically Pro-Cat

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Rodeo costs less to produce than h/j shows????

                              Let me see:
                              H/J: one arena with technical accoutrements; jumps; posies; judge; announcer; gatekeeper; paddock master; steward; EMT

                              Rodeo: one arena with technical accoutrements; judge; announcer; chutekeeper; EMT; bullfighters/rodeo clowns; chutes; barrels & poles; (so far, close to even) - oh - and then there's the cattle (various sizes for different events from calf-roping to cutting to steer-wrestling/bulldogging) and the rough stock (bareback horses, broncs & bulls).

                              I'm thinking that rodeo expenses FAR outweigh h/j.

                              Carol
                              www.ayliprod.com
                              Equine Photography in the Northeast

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I have a friend on the Paint Horse circuit. She won THREE trailers in one year and traded them in for one big one with living quarters. Her show fees are usually smaller than ours and she comes home with a LOT of prize money. The junior program is very strong and keeps getting people involved. The different year end competitions for Jrs.,amateurs and even seniors are big draws. And I didn't get my daughter into that why? Now I remember, we needed 10 coolers with different show names on them.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  rental of venue or purchase/upkeep of owned facility; liability insurance; salaries for office, ground staff, starters, course designers, judges, stewards, stabling personnel, etc.; jump rental; landscaping; Tent set-up/teardown; EMT/emergency support; office hardware; show management software; scoreboard rental/purchase; PA system rental/purchase; show amenities like coffee, food, water; port-o-johns; prizes (ribbons, coolers, trophies); etc........

                                  Running a competition is not a bargain-basement endeavor and they deserve a reasonable rate of return. Some clearly take advantage, but the costs do add up!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by ccoronios View Post
                                    Rodeo costs less to produce than h/j shows????

                                    Let me see:
                                    H/J: one arena with technical accoutrements; jumps; posies; judge; announcer; gatekeeper; paddock master; steward; EMT

                                    Rodeo: one arena with technical accoutrements; judge; announcer; chutekeeper; EMT; bullfighters/rodeo clowns; chutes; barrels & poles; (so far, close to even) - oh - and then there's the cattle (various sizes for different events from calf-roping to cutting to steer-wrestling/bulldogging) and the rough stock (bareback horses, broncs & bulls).

                                    I'm thinking that rodeo expenses FAR outweigh h/j.

                                    Carol
                                    Ummm, times 3-8 for the H/J at rated shows.....
                                    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
                                    carolprudm

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by mroades View Post
                                      Ummm, times 3-8 for the H/J at rated shows.....
                                      That's what I was going to say... Ocala has, what? 9 rings going during the winter circuit?
                                      Colorado's summer circuit, which isn't that big, has 2 jumper rings and 3 or 4 hunter rings....

                                      I'd definitely say it's the accessibility issue. Rodeo's are more "spectator friendly" in advertising a fun, festive, affordable atmosphere. Hunters and jumpers seem more elitist and less accepting... I love A and AA shows, but if I were a spectator, I'd be a little intimidated by them.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Big QH and Paint shows have multiple rings too...

                                        Comment

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