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A lot to ask?

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  • A lot to ask?

    I saw this ad, for a rider position in my area: (NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT, I REMOVED ALL NAMES AND $$$. I am also a scared ammy with a 9-5 "real" job, so it's not for me.)

    Rider wanted. (Its a BNT.) Private farm, 30 horses, hunters, jumpers and equitation. Must be under 20-30 years old, legal. Must be able to flat/ jump/ show 10 horses a day. Must be able to go to 48 shows/ year. Must have competed successfully as a junior (ribbons in all equitation finals mandatory, preferably on at least one NAYRC or Prix de States team.) Must have experience riding and showing in Europe. Must be able to get along well with two other long term female riders that have met above requirements. Housing, health ins. and car provided. May bring up to two sale horses at no cost. No grooming, teaching or paperwork is involved.

    Does this seem like a lot to ask? or is this a fairly common resume for a 25 year old to have. I grew up at the local level, I am just wondering.
    When the boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks the closet for George Morris. -mpsbarnmanager

  • #2
    I'd say that its not common but sounds like an amazing opportunity if you HAD the resume.

    Then again, people who have that resume usually have opportunities way better than this.

    Comment


    • #3
      Those are some high standards but I think the strangest thing is that they're advertising for it. Someone that meets that type of description would prob have no problem finding a position and their name is probably pretty well known to anyone looking for a rider already. Those kinds of positions are usually filled by word of mouth it seems. It's a dream job for anyone that just wants to ride though! No paperwork or lessons, just riding and showing!

      Out of curiosity where was the ad placed? A national mag, a BB...?

      Comment


      • #4
        My guess would be they already have someone BUT the person doesn't have a green card to work in this country (person could be British, European, whatever). In order to push ahead with the paperwork for them to work legally in this country, the employer has to prove that there is no U.S. citizen qualified, ready & desiring the job. I have seen close personal acquaintances go through this process, although NOT in the horse work area. Sometimes they are people who have a temporary work permit, are here & working & are outstanding. Now the employer wants them permanently.

        I am not familiar with the systems of showing in other countries, so the person may not actually have ribboned in medals finals but perhaps something equivalent in another country. Or, perhaps, the person WAS in the U.S. during their teen years & did do equitation classes.

        Another possibility is that the employer is committed by their own rules published in some sort of company policies manual to widely advertise/publish all job openings. In that case, if they have someone they want to hire, they will advertise almost "impossible" criteria so they can keep everything documented & show that there were no applicants that met the advertised criteria so, of course, they had to hire their best friend's daughter.

        Ads that seem almost beyond difficult to meet usually fit in one of the two above categories in my experience.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm curious as to how they are getting around laws that forbid employers to discriminate against potential employees based on age? If I were over 30, met the other requirements, and were looking for a job, I might be a tad miffed. And so might my lawyer.

          But I don't meet ANY of the requirements, so I'm not miffed.
          Looking for horse activity in the Twin Tiers? Follow my blog at http://thetwintiershorse.blogspot.com/

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Evalee Hunter View Post
            My guess would be they already have someone BUT the person doesn't have a green card to work in this country (person could be British, European, whatever). In order to push ahead with the paperwork for them to work legally in this country, the employer has to prove that there is no U.S. citizen qualified, ready & desiring the job. I have seen close personal acquaintances go through this process, although NOT in the horse work area. Sometimes they are people who have a temporary work permit, are here & working & are outstanding. Now the employer wants them permanently.
            Oh I bet you're on to something! The "ribbons in medal finals" PLUS "experience in Europe" seemed surprising.

            As someone who's just been hired essentially under the table after a requisite sham "job search" (detailing my exact, specific qualifications which of course nobody else could match)... totally non-HR field, but still!

            Comment


            • #7
              Seems to me like it is a lot to ask. Don't think anyone with all of that on their resume would be looking through ads. How many people are there out there that have ribboned in all the EQ finals AND have experience in Europe.

              If this was just a way to get someone from Europe a green card, would they even meet the ad requirements? I would think that someone who was from Europe, they would not have shown in the NAYRC and shown in the EQ finals.
              www.OneJumpAhead.ca

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              • #8
                I believe it is illegal to post an age limit for potential employees. If they can't get that right... sigh.
                The armchair saddler
                Politically Pro-Cat

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ribbons in all eq finals...really not too many kids that can say that they have those. And if they do then they usually dont go around looking for a job like that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Evalee Hunter View Post
                    My guess would be they already have someone BUT the person doesn't have a green card to work in this country (person could be British, European, whatever). In order to push ahead with the paperwork for them to work legally in this country, the employer has to prove that there is no U.S. citizen qualified, ready & desiring the job. I have seen close personal acquaintances go through this process, although NOT in the horse work area. Sometimes they are people who have a temporary work permit, are here & working & are outstanding. Now the employer wants them permanently.

                    I am not familiar with the systems of showing in other countries, so the person may not actually have ribboned in medals finals but perhaps something equivalent in another country. Or, perhaps, the person WAS in the U.S. during their teen years & did do equitation classes.

                    Another possibility is that the employer is committed by their own rules published in some sort of company policies manual to widely advertise/publish all job openings. In that case, if they have someone they want to hire, they will advertise almost "impossible" criteria so they can keep everything documented & show that there were no applicants that met the advertised criteria so, of course, they had to hire their best friend's daughter.

                    Ads that seem almost beyond difficult to meet usually fit in one of the two above categories in my experience.
                    Agree 100% with Evalee Hunter's analysis.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparky View Post
                      Agree 100% with Evalee Hunter's analysis.
                      Like other jobs not HR it happens, it also happens in real estate. Years ago we went to go look at the most beautiful, perfect piece of land with an old farm house that was adorable. I fell in love with the place, we would have gone to the moon and back for this property. It was advertised by the estate's attorney and he would not return our phone calls, it was already presold to one of his friends and he had to go through the sham and pretense of advertising the property to satisfy his duty.
                      Don't let anyone tell you that your ideas or dreams are foolish. There is a millionaire walking around who invented the pool noodle.

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                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Evalee Hunter you are genius. you are totally right.

                        sometimes I am so naive

                        When the boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks the closet for George Morris. -mpsbarnmanager

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This happens alot in government jobs. The agency already has someone in mind for the position, but they are required by law to advertise it to the general public. They go through through the whole ruse of interviews, testing, etc., and then inform the outside applicants that they hired someone else. This would be the inhouse person. My husband and I both work for cities and we have seen this time and time again. The ad specified in the original post seems to be a similair scenario.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you are all riled up about the scam

                            At least end it by informing the posting source that they have violated federal law by posting a job with an age restriction. A couple people manipulating the world to suit their purposes might to well to be brought up short.

                            By the way, you are also not allowed to either require or ASK prospective employees about: marital status, religion, sexual preference. Others I'm missing?
                            The armchair saddler
                            Politically Pro-Cat

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                            • #15
                              I agree with Evalee Hunter and mvp (on their separate points).

                              You shouldn't ask about age (except to verify someone is legally allowed to work - so you can ask, "Are you over 16?" or whatever fits your state's child labour laws or "Are you over 18?" if that's legally required for the job, or what have you ), race, national origin/citizenship (you can ask if they are legally able to work in the US), marriage status, children/pregnancy, medical conditions or disabilities (you can ask if they can perform the job responsibilities), religion, union membership... I'm sure there are some I'm leaving out. From a federal perspective it is (unfortunately) OK to ask about sexual preference, though several states and localities have laws prohibiting it. Really if you'd like to avoid being sued you just shouldn't ask about things that have no bearing on the prospective employee's ability to do the job.

                              Of course, you CAN ask about any of those things; you just can't base any decisions on them. The tricky part is that if you ask if someone is married (for example) and then DON'T hire them, you've left yourself wide open for a lawsuit wherein they state they weren't hired due to their marital status. If you really AREN'T basing your decision on such criteria, then there is no reason to ask. If you ARE basing your decision on it, well, that's illegal - regardless of how you came by the info, by the way. It's just easier to prove you knew it and cared about it if you outright asked it in the interview - or the job ad.

                              And, of course, you can "discriminate" based on all sorts of things if it's a bona fide qualification. For example, if you are hiring summer camp counselors, you are absolutely allowed to discriminate against men when hiring the counselors who will be living with the girls. If you are trying to claim bona fide qualification, though, you'd better think long and hard first and make sure it's not prejudice talking and is really, truly a qualification issue that you could prove in court.

                              [I am not a lawyer, and do not play one on TV. If either of those were the case, I'd be much richer. I am just very interested in the law and particularly employment law, as I know a few employment lawyers and help with hiring in the course of my job. But before you take any of my advice, do double check with a Real Lawyer (tm).]
                              Proud member of the EDRF

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by PonyPenny View Post
                                This happens alot in government jobs. The agency already has someone in mind for the position, but they are required by law to advertise it to the general public. They go through through the whole ruse of interviews, testing, etc., and then inform the outside applicants that they hired someone else. This would be the inhouse person. My husband and I both work for cities and we have seen this time and time again. The ad specified in the original post seems to be a similair scenario.


                                Do we work for the same city? Despite suspecting that they had someone from the "outside" in mind, I applied for a much higher position early on in my employment. I scored 98.46% on the written test but flunked the interview. FLUNKED an INTERVIEW?!

                                In the end, they hired the person they wanted for the job but, in my opinion, have had reason to greatly regret that hiring. Oh, well. I don't make as much as I would have, but I like my current job much better.
                                "Oh, sure, you may be able to take down one smurf, but mark my words: You bonk one smurf, you better be ready for a blue wave."---Bucky Katt

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                  At least end it by informing the posting source that they have violated federal law by posting a job with an age restriction. A couple people manipulating the world to suit their purposes might to well to be brought up short.

                                  By the way, you are also not allowed to either require or ASK prospective employees about: marital status, religion, sexual preference. Others I'm missing?
                                  Maybe, "Are you pregnant?" or "If you get pregnant, will you take 'extended' leave?" Not sure about these.
                                  "Oh, sure, you may be able to take down one smurf, but mark my words: You bonk one smurf, you better be ready for a blue wave."---Bucky Katt

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Haha, good luck finding someone under 20 who has ribboned in the medal finals, gone to Europe to have extensive riding experience, and still wants to have a 24/7 riding job and be forced to bring his/her horses only as SALE horses... I agree with the consensus that this is a fake ad for a position that already has someone very specific in mind.
                                    "Disapproval of the way other people run their businesses and treat their horses is the meat and drink of the hunter-jumper industry."
                                    Working Student Blog
                                    Current Blog

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hiring in the horse biz (both show/event/dressage etc and racing) is tricky and because of the various laws, many people end up working under the table and jobs are procured by word of mouth rather than public ads.
                                      You can't "discriminate" based on marital status or pregnancy but if you are hiring someone to ride 5 horses a day and travel to 40 shows a year a "married with kids" applicant probably CANNOT do the work. (Flame suit on: I said probably, I'm sure there are exceptions!) The super talented rider that just got married at age 35 might really be hoping to start a family very soon, or then again she may not want kids at all. The hiring trainer can't be very direct in trying to find out how long he can count on her to work for him. (I worked years ago in retail and the sales managers were often glorified stock people, lots of physical work. A trainee found out she was pregnant but didn't tell management. She got promoted to sales manager and promptly announced that she was preggers and couldn't lift anything. Needless to say, they were not pleased with her!)
                                      The nomadic nature of the horse world (showing and racing) makes it tough on people with families and when head trainers are hiring they need to very carefully "get at" the notion that this is as much a lifestyle as it is a job.
                                      I understand why anti-discrimination laws are in effect but it puts the hiring party in a tricky spot. The fact is that women take maternity leave and women with physical jobs (like riding) have to take "pregnancy leave" too. Women with families are far more likely than men with families to take time off for child related things like sickness, school events etc.
                                      Last edited by Linny; Apr. 13, 2009, 10:47 PM.
                                      F O.B
                                      Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                                      Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Linny View Post
                                        Hiring in the horse biz (both show/event/dressage etc and racing) is tricky and because of the various laws, many people end up working under the table and jobs are procured by word of mouth rather than public ads.
                                        You can't "discriminate" based on marital status or pregnancy but if you are hiring someone to ride 5 horses a day and travel to 40 shows a year a "married with kids" applicant probably CANNOT do the work. (Flame suit on: I said probably, I'm sure their are exceptions!) The super talented rider that just got married at age 35 might really be hoping to start a family very soon, or then again she may not want kids at all. The hiring trainer can't be very direct in trying to find out how long he can count on her to work for him. (I worked years ago in retail and the sales managers were often glorified stock people, lots of physical work. A trainee found out she was pregnant but didn't tell management. She got promoted to sales manager and promptly announced that she was preggers and couldn't lift anything. Needless to say, they were not pleased with her!)
                                        The nomadic nature of the horse world (showing and racing) makes it tough on people with families and when head trainers are hiring they need to very carefully "get at" the notion that this is as much a lifestyle as it is a job.
                                        I understand why anti-discrimination laws are in effect but it puts the hiring party in a tricky spot. The fact is that women take maternity leave and women with physical jobs (like riding) have to take "pregnancy leave" too. Women with families are far more likely than men with families to take time off for child related things like sickness, school events etc.
                                        I read this post three times, and I am still shaking my head.

                                        To take your arguement to its logical conclusion, only men should be hired, as then there is no chance of them getting pregnant.
                                        www.OneJumpAhead.ca

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