• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Questions I would ask the judges of the AHSA Medal Finals if I was...

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Questions I would ask the judges of the AHSA Medal Finals if I was...

    ...Randy Sherman. Why did you make my first Medal Final be from favoritism, at least in appearance if not in fact? I am going to have no trouble winning the Medal finals under my own steam sometime in the future. If I was better than the three people ahead of me on the standby who were dropped off, while I stay on, why wasn't I ahead of them from the start? If I wasn't better, why was I still in, while they were dropped off?

    ...Eva Gonda. Why did you embarass me by making me stand in the spotlight and receive a rosette in front of a thousand people who knew I shouldn't have even been in the second round? I am trying to figure out how two judges missed the fact that I cross cantered about five strides from the second jump of the four to the single, then flat miss at the wedge oxer option then not have the sense to wait for the six and ran like a scalded rabbit for the oxer to get there in five and still left from here to East Egypt? It wasn't my day so why did you try to make it so?

    ...Tiffany Cornacchio. Maggie Jayne has an excellent second round and moves from 22nd to sixth. Eva Gonda has a mediocre second round and moves from 15th to eighth. I have a second round that was at the very least as good as the top three and I go nowhere?
  • Original Poster

    #2
    ...Randy Sherman. Why did you make my first Medal Final be from favoritism, at least in appearance if not in fact? I am going to have no trouble winning the Medal finals under my own steam sometime in the future. If I was better than the three people ahead of me on the standby who were dropped off, while I stay on, why wasn't I ahead of them from the start? If I wasn't better, why was I still in, while they were dropped off?

    ...Eva Gonda. Why did you embarass me by making me stand in the spotlight and receive a rosette in front of a thousand people who knew I shouldn't have even been in the second round? I am trying to figure out how two judges missed the fact that I cross cantered about five strides from the second jump of the four to the single, then flat miss at the wedge oxer option then not have the sense to wait for the six and ran like a scalded rabbit for the oxer to get there in five and still left from here to East Egypt? It wasn't my day so why did you try to make it so?

    ...Tiffany Cornacchio. Maggie Jayne has an excellent second round and moves from 22nd to sixth. Eva Gonda has a mediocre second round and moves from 15th to eighth. I have a second round that was at the very least as good as the top three and I go nowhere?

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not following you very well here, and I'd like to. Can you explain a bit more for those of us who weren't there and haven't kept up with it? Thanks.
      Sportponies Unlimited
      Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

      Comment


      • #4
        That is so funny and so true!!!!! I would love to know what those judges were thinking. If I was Eva I would definatly be embaressed to.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Pwynn, as the class progresses, a standby is issued so all 288 kids aren't wondering if they made the second round. After the first hundred, they had a standby of 20. I believe Randy Sherman was 18th or 19th at that point. Fron that point on, the standby changed as other riders competed and were better than those at the bottom of the list. The total number on the standy also went from 20 to 25. At the end of the third standby, Randy Sherman was 25th. At the end of the fourth standy, he was also last, but two people above him had been dropped. for the final list, he was still last but another rider above him had been dropped. It gave the appearance of favoritism, since the list was in order of preference. If the list is Not in order of preference, the announcer says so, or the riders on the standby are listed numerically.

          Eva Gonda, good rider though she is, did not have a good day. There was a forward four followed by a left turn to a single then a 270 degree turn to an option, which Eva rode as an oxer, to an oxer that was set on a straight forward five or a bending six. Eva's horse landed on the right lead after the four and only changed his lead in front, so he cross-cantered to the single. He then took a big spook at the option oxer and she was well behind the motion in driving him over. Her horse stuck hard off the ground but her plan was obviously to do the forward five, and she stuck to her plan, even though the stick off the gound meant he was landing with less forward motion than is preferable. She did the ole hook-and-drive to get him there and he got there, but it was an extremely long distance and she was again behind the motion. She went 92nd and when they had her 3rd on the standby after the top 100 had gone, I was amazed.

          The only thing I can say about Tiffany is she was as smooth as silk over the second round and got nothing for her efforts. I was sitting with two other judges and we all had her in the top six, instead of Maggie. Even though Maggie also had an excellent second ride, she came back in 22nd place, while Tiffany was in 12th.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            I forgot one other thing! Thanks for the e-mail reminder.

            The dotted line box was pretty ambiguous. Riders crossing into the box were subject to elimination. Brian Walker, who came back on top had crossed into the box. A few others had, also. He obviously thought he was going to be eliminated, since he was in the chute in tears. Since it was 'subject to elimination', it is apparently at the judges discretion. I personally think this renders it pretty much meaningless.

            For example, say after the first standby, riders on the standby were also those who had crossed the dotted line. Crossing the dotted line allowed for a much smoother ending circle than turning soon enough to avoid the dotted line. Well, once a rider is on the standby with a circle through the dotted line, everyone does it. Now, you are stuck either retroactively eliminating riders already on the standby, or continuing to allow everyone to do it. It becomes meaningless.

            [This message has been edited by Twister (edited 10-22-2000).]

            Comment


            • #7
              I understand what you are trying to get across here.I wasnt there but I understand your point and Tiffany can be absolutely marvelous .For some reason I find that some judges dont take her seriously .Why I don't know because she is very good.CANT Explain the cross cantering miss stuff with Eva at all.You'd have to ask the judges.Hey why don't we see how brave the judges are?Maybe they can be asked politely to entertain questions?
              Brilyntrip

              Comment


              • #8
                Twister, I was there too and I agree with your post and I have more to add....Jennifer Berol Bliss also crossed the dotted line and made it to the second round....Cody Baird did something weird in the first round, made it to the second round and trotted twice....Cathleen Calvert crashed through the last fence and made it to the second round..anyone else who took the last rail down was dead meat and Sarah, who in my opinion did not earn the win, almost fell off her mount... all these riders are big name riders, is that the reason these things were overlooked? I honestly didin't understand the judging....

                Comment


                • #9
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pwynnnorman:
                  I'm not following you very well here, and I'd like to. Can you explain a bit more for those of us who weren't there and haven't kept up with it? Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  I'm with pwynn. I'm lost. Please explain for those of us not in the loop.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OK, guys and gals. I appreciate this report, for obvious reasons given what opinions I've posted in the past. Are any of you willing to step up to the plate and name the TRAINERS of the riders mentioned (favored riders as well as less favored ones)? It may be nothing, but I'd kinda like to see if there's a pattern somewhere--and, yeah, I'll admit that my suspicion always lies with who the trainer is.

                    BTW: "Since it was 'subject to elimination', it is apparently at the judges discretion. I personally think this renders it pretty much meaningless."

                    SUBJECT TO? I find that utterly incredible. How can a "rule" exist subject to an individual judge's opinion? So if a rider goes off course, can the judge ignore that as well? Or falls off? Or runs over the ringmaster?
                    Sportponies Unlimited
                    Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pwynnnorman:
                      OK, Are any of you willing to step up to the plate and name the TRAINERS of the riders mentioned (favored riders as well as less favored ones)? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      I think Randy Sherman, from California, is trained by Karen Healey.

                      Eva Gonda, also from California, is trained by Nicky Shahinian

                      Sarah Willeman is trained by Missy Clark.

                      Jenni Jones is trained by Christina Shlusmeyer.

                      I don't know who trains Tiffany.

                      Maggie Jayne is trained by her dad.

                      The girl who was the last to be booted off the standby in favor of Randy staying on is trained by Jeff Cook.

                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                      BTW: "Since it was 'subject to elimination', it is apparently at the judges discretion. I personally think this renders it pretty much meaningless."

                      SUBJECT TO? I find that utterly incredible. How can a "rule" exist subject to an individual judge's opinion? So if a rider goes off course, can the judge ignore that as well? Or falls off? Or runs over the ringmaster?
                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      The dotted line thing does fall into a grey area. It was first started to help expediate trips and prevent riders from making a grand tour of the ring before starting their course. In my opinion, it either needs to be a firm rule, or not be used.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i agree tiffany should have been way higher, but Dont you think Jenny should have won? If they wanted Sarah to win they just should have stopped over the second round. Not do a final test, with the top two switching horses, Jenny rode the boots off grappa while Sarah was just "ok" on Pik Trump 2. I agree the judgeing was just a tad bit odd.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Twister, I agree 100 % with what you observed at the Medal finals, but have to tell you my impression of Eva's ride. I thought that she was the first rider to carve out a clear track, to have a plan that she stuck with, and to ride aggressively even though things were obviously not going as smoothly as planned. Being aggressive does not always translate into being pretty, but the bottom line is she got the job done and if I were judging, I would have also put her in the second round. I'd have to see the video to be sure, but I think her horse landed on the cross canter, I don't think he just changed in front. Be that as it may, I still think she was among the first to at least try to make her plan work. The other comments you made were totally on the mark!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Tiffany is trained by Lisa Rex and Tiffany was veryu successful at Uset finals weird huh?
                            Brilyntrip

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Along the same vein of conversation, but on a much more smaller scale - the Maryland Gittings Finals (for anyone that is in Maryland for WIHS and actually saw the class) was positively the worse judging witnessed by not only myself, but also many others (of the smallish crowd) in the grand stands. And what a shame because the course was great, the riders (except for a few and unfortunatly, 3 of the final four) were terrific and so competative, and so many of the horses were beautiful. Why a judge would then choose to award the blue to a rider that not only had a less then stellar performance (based on the riders credentials, I would think that even this rider was aware that the course did not measure up to many of the others), but an even worse test, is absolutely beyond me. Especially when there were half a dozen undisputed quality trips to choose from. I would have been embarrassed. I cant believe it is the rider's name or the coach's name for alot of reasons. Im wondering if it is just a long day for the judge and they get a little ADD and go with the rider that had the best sounding BIO or they have actually being influenced some other way.

                              How many people agree that when a tests is called out as "canter straight from your position on the rail to fence 1, gallop fence 2, trot fence....." it means gallop all the way to the fence. The first placed rider galloped to the fence, then five strides away, dropped back to the canter and jumped. Wouldn't the directions for that sound more like "canter fence 1, gallop around the corner, canter fence 2....."?

                              The jumpers look better and better every year.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Who were the top 4, Retro?

                                And at the MHSA Adult Medals, I saw very few hand gallops as requested. Now me, I can go fast. Might demolish the jump and can't halt afterwards, but I will be galloping...
                                Man plans. God laughs.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  AMEN, Retro!

                                  [This message has been edited by Jumphigh83 (edited 10-23-2000).]
                                  The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    When the top four were called back I became so ill that I needed to leave the arena. I hate to see the things described above in this post start happening on a local level - especially when it seemed that there was a lot of talent in this group of kids. This MD, VA, PA areas seems very talented. I watched each test but could not bear to see the final placings although I heard later who won. I almost hate to print who Im speaking of because it really isnt their fault that the judging was in some way flawed. Every one goes in and rides the best they can and I think even the favorites cant be sure the judge will roll over for them. Any way, here goes.

                                    Called back in what I believe was the order (as opposed to reverse order) was Matt Lowe (coached by James Cornwell), and I get a little sketchy here as far as the exact order, then it was either Betsy Parker (coach??), Another student of James' on the nice albeit shorter strided Even Steven, and then ___ DuPont (David Lohman coaches) on a fabulous horse. She should have won the class and the other three shouldnt have been in the top four (or ten for two of those three). Matt was the eventual winner despite the faulty gallop fence. Everyone else galloped and did well except for one gallop to the CHIP (that matched the chip from the first course). I know I sound cruel, but I was not alone in my surprise and distaste for the judges poor skills.

                                    Such a shame because, like I said too many times now - there were many fabulous rounds. The boy that started the class, Will somthing, I think, should have been in the top four - got tenth!

                                    Hey Flash, I know what you mean about the gallop thing. Now that I can do.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Gittings finals were very strange. Megan Schoellhamer was called in 2nd behind Matt. She rides with Miranda Scott. I orignally thouht they were called in reverse order. I was in the shoot when the judge radioed the announcer with the results. James was even shocked. We all thought Bailey was on top.

                                      Betsie Parker ended up around 8th?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Sarah won the Medal finals becasue it was her last year as a junior. Jenny Jones deserved to win but has another year (at least) to do well. The same thing with Eva Gonda-it was her last time at the medal finals as well.

                                        Karen Healy was quoted as saying the judging was f#!*! travesty.

                                        Tiffany lost because she is trained by a no name, so to speak, in the equitation world.

                                        I hate that this happens, but let's not fool ourselves, it isn't the first and it certainly will not be the last time this sort of thing happens.

                                        One of the judges posts here all the time, I wonder why there isn't any feedback??

                                        [This message has been edited by Kerry (edited 10-24-2000).]

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X