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Should the A/A division be "A" rated?

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  • Should the A/A division be "A" rated?

    I read the article in the Amateur issue of COTH which discussed this issue -- and I can see both sides:

    Pro: Gives people who win at AAA shows more points than people who win at Local shows. This seems fair. But will this mean the death of Local shows, as some people argue?

    Pro: Us A/A types are the [acknowledged] backbone of the horse shows now. Why should we be second class citizens and support the other divisions without a hope of ever winning back a penny in prize money? If the division was recognised, shows would have to offer prize money to the A/A's. (This, to me is the MAIN reason that horse show managers are fighting this idea.)

    Anti: If the division becames recognised, horses would have to jog for soundness. I have no trouble waiting around to jog (some people do though, it seems) as long as there is a standby list announced every X number of horses. But what about the old campaigners who won't pass a jog? Should they even still be showing? They are the BEST teachers and to take them out of the A/A division means that they have no place anymore when they can be great teachers.

    The article brought up more arguments [and assumed that, if the A/A's were recognised, then Children' Hunters would be also], but these are the ones that stick in my mind.

    What say you all?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    So I lied. Horses ARE my whole life. I have no other life at all.....
    "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

    Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

  • Original Poster

    #2
    I read the article in the Amateur issue of COTH which discussed this issue -- and I can see both sides:

    Pro: Gives people who win at AAA shows more points than people who win at Local shows. This seems fair. But will this mean the death of Local shows, as some people argue?

    Pro: Us A/A types are the [acknowledged] backbone of the horse shows now. Why should we be second class citizens and support the other divisions without a hope of ever winning back a penny in prize money? If the division was recognised, shows would have to offer prize money to the A/A's. (This, to me is the MAIN reason that horse show managers are fighting this idea.)

    Anti: If the division becames recognised, horses would have to jog for soundness. I have no trouble waiting around to jog (some people do though, it seems) as long as there is a standby list announced every X number of horses. But what about the old campaigners who won't pass a jog? Should they even still be showing? They are the BEST teachers and to take them out of the A/A division means that they have no place anymore when they can be great teachers.

    The article brought up more arguments [and assumed that, if the A/A's were recognised, then Children' Hunters would be also], but these are the ones that stick in my mind.

    What say you all?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    So I lied. Horses ARE my whole life. I have no other life at all.....
    "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

    Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

    Comment


    • #3
      requirement that AAs and childrens jog at least their opening circles isnt there ??
      Brilyntrip

      Comment


      • #4
        by jogging for soundness, I think it's meaning that all tack except for the bridle must be off and the horse must be trotted in front of the judge(s)

        Comment


        • #5
          In some zones/areas, judges can ask for children's hunters or A/A to jog OR it is already a requirement.

          In MS, I used to have to jog my children's hunter at "A" shows.

          If a horse won't pass a jog, it isn't sound and should not be pinned in the first place, in my opinon.

          My karma ran over your dogma.

          Comment


          • #6
            where I show we always have to jog for soundness. When we don't jog it seems to me the same as showing in a low hunter division. I don't even feel like I'm competing at the same level. If my horse can't pass the jog than he shouldn't be there. I think the a/a division should be recognized as we are becoming the backbone of the show. The fact that there were only 4 horses in the older amateur division at the National Horsehow should tell us that.

            Comment


            • #7
              I AM IN THE FAVOR OF IT BEING AA RATED! when i moved to texas and they jogged the 3ft it made me laugh.. it was so odd, but this year they don't jog 3ft.

              ~Jess~
              www.catchride.com
              Jess

              Comment


              • #8
                y did u laugh??? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

                *Spring Break*
                *Simon*
                *Homie S*

                Comment


                • #9
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SpringBreak:
                  y did u laugh??? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

                  *Spring Break*
                  *Simon*
                  *Homie S*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  alot of places don't jog 3'.. so i came from a place that didn't and thought it was bizzar and silly.

                  ~Jess~
                  www.catchride.com
                  Jess

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Problem w/making it rated is that the one day option would likely be scrapped, ie most people who now show on one day would be looking at 2 days of showing, braiding, vanning, day care, training, etc...entry fees would go up if prize money were awarded, and as for soundness....oh brother.

                    Then there is the discrepency factor between zones that would have to be resolved...not to mention the domino effect as the demand to "go A rated" trickles down to the children's hunter horse and pony divisions.....

                    I kind of like the fact that my one-day budget clients have a shot at qualifying for some of the nicer year end awards and shows because "all points are equal."

                    I don't think many of those mega-$$$$ AA horses who turn up at the AAA shows have much to fear from us though. So I don't see much point in them not only beating us, but beating us "worse," point-wise.

                    Too many cons, not enough pros.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      i think the aa' & childrens divisions should def b A rated for severall reasons: the competition is often just as serious as the rated divisons, there are def A quality horses in these divisions and making them A rated will eliminate some of those horses that certainly dont belong there and just make these divisions take ALL DAY, the ppl that show in these divisions do deserve some opportunity to make their money back and ppl get more pts for doing these divisions @ AA shows anyway since theres more ppl

                      http://radiofinderizer.net/cgi-bin/c...mous3136&a=Nas

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I believe it should be since both divisions (esp. childrens where we are) were always much larger than Jr or A/O. I pay almost the same entry fees for childrens & wonder why the jrs. would pay back with 5 or 6 entries & childrens could have 20 + and not payback a cent. Childrens & Adults would pay for most of the show (except for the lows of course). Riding well is riding well, whether you've got a 3' horse or a 3'6"er.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I completely agree with JustJump. All the reasons she stated are exactly why I wouldn't want to see the A/A divisions get changed to A rated.

                          visit www.victorianfarms.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Whatever happened to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In the 1980's shows gave out twice the prize money for less entry fees and were all very successful and financially secure. Life was good! There were tons of entries in all the A Rated Divisions, so many we couldn't finish a show before midnight.

                              I would love it if the Childrens and the AA were A Rated but with a provision, I would like all those divisions that are A Rated which means they must go on two days and into the increment system back home at the A Shows.

                              I would like to see how short a time it would take to bring back the 3'6" horses if all those divisions ran on one day and all were equally C-Rated. I believe then we would see the shrinking of the 3'0" divisions and the re-growth of the other rated divisions.

                              You want the 2 day rule and the incremented system that makes it impossible for real folks to qualify for anything. So, most people have all opted not to move up at all. Is that really what you wish for? Is that really what you need to feel important and recognized?

                              Since most people would not stable their horses in tents in the winter, it pretty well concedes the non-existence of all A shows north of the Mason-Dixon line.

                              Today you can win as many points as a bad 3rd at a AA Show with only 3 entries as you would get if you won a blue in a class of 30 at a C Rated Show. So if you really want to be competitive plan on a permanent life on the AA circuit.

                              Will the extra costs, the extra inconvenience and extra time you would have to spend get you to move up to those shows or would you then drop down to 2'9".
                              http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I don't think I've ever been to a show where the AA's ran in only one day. Around here, it's at least 2 if not 3 days for the division. We still have enough entries to split 18-30, 31-39, 40-49, and 50+. All my associated show costs are the same as the Jrs except enteries are a bit lower, but not really that much. AA's and Children's carry the show. It would be nice not just to have the chance to make a few $ back, but just to have a little respect. Oh, yea, I know, 3' isn't real riding, blah blah blah. Get over it. Horse shows could no longer exist without 3' and below divisions.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I would like to see the A/A recognized. But I do have a question, why is it that if it were recognized it would have to take place over 2 days? Just wondering... Most shows I go to have the division on one day, but I have been to a few where they are held on Sat. and Sun.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Like Kestrel said, around here I've never seen any that were done in one day, unless they were at C shows. Even though they are offered at A shows and are split over two days, they are still unrated, or at least C rated.

                                    "God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses."
                                    ~R. Graham

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I think the A/A division should be AA rated. In Zone 3 we job for soundness anyway and typically if there are alot of horses they give you a stand-by order.

                                      We pay enough money already and at the better shows the quality of the A/A horses is very high - as high as in many AA rated divisions.

                                      The show managers don't want it as the A/A divisions and the Childrens carry the shows - we pay for everyone else. But why shouldn't the A/A division be recognized? It is a legitimate division. Many riders like myself are in it not because we can't ride at 3'6 or we don't have the horse, but because we work full-time and don't ride enough to do the the 3'6 division.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        about all this 1 day show stuff? Where does this happen? Around where I live/show, all the divisions except like short stirrup are spread over at least 2 days. I am curious as to what the rules are: do you have to get a stall, are there ship in charges if you don't, how many classes are in the division? I think that would be really nice to be able to show & not have to dedicate 3 days to it or take off from work. Also, I think jogs would be a good thing in the Children's & A/A's. Some of the horses really aren't sound & if they can't trot sound without a rider or saddle, I wonder if they should be jumping 3' still? Just my opinion.
                                        "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

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