• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Who is going to the USOC HEARINGS in NY? or Now Austin?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • While it is true that USAE handles all the paperwork for International competition, they have no experience handling the logistical aspect of international competition.

    They have never booked a flight, hired a coach, a stable manager, a vet, selected a Team (except Madrid), seen to Health Papers, etc. They do not have the physical infrastructure to do so. Heck, they don't even have control over the saddle pads.

    This is not to say that USAE cannot step in and do the job, but as of this now, they have never done anything but the paperwork.

    This transition, should it arrive, is not going to be as easy as some posters envision.

    Comment


    • No transition is without it's hiccups, Emmet. However, I hardly see this job as needing genius level intelligence either. I believe an organized person, with access to a telephone, fax and computer might just get it done.

      Also, one might hope to retain the same experienced staff. Obviously, that would be ideal.

      [This message was edited by Duffy on Oct. 21, 2001 at 12:18 PM.]

      [This message was edited by Duffy on Oct. 21, 2001 at 12:19 PM.]
      \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

      Comment


      • the goal was still to find a way to compromise here and avoid making the USOC make the final decision.

        Whatever the decision, I am sure there will be people in both organizations who, after this is all over, will be willing to work together to get down to the real business at hand. There may be some "upper management" lost, but, heck, in most businesses, they are interchangable anyway. It is the everyday people, in the everyday jobs at both organizations, who actually do the work, and I can't imagine they will depart en-mass.

        So, I don't think the transition, while not without "hiccups" as Duffy said, will be as hard as some people think.

        Oh, and by the way, we need to avoid picking on Robert Dover (never thought I'd have to say that outside of the dressage forum). Remember, issues, not individuals.
        If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
        Desmond Tutu

        Comment


        • while I certainly have no illusions that ANY transition is ever EASY, are you saying that the experienced people that act as vets, stable managers, (saddle pad makers!) won't be available unless one particular Board makes the final decisions on matters that concern approximately 200 TOTAL 'athletes' (just the human ones at that)?

          Obviously all the continuity that can be accomplished is in everyone's best interest here. But, to my knowledge anyway, 98% of the kind of things you are talking about have been handled by the FIRST CLASS group of discipline directors at the USET. These are the people who for the most part are the least appreciated by the USET leadership, at least financially -- while they are always the most appreciated by the riders themselves. When was the last time any rider called Bob Standish about a matter of training or competition?

          I think the key here will be EVERYONE'S willingness and sincerity in first accepting the new reality that the USOC (along with the passage of time and the glorious growth in our sport) has dictated -- and then being willing to devote their own time and energy into creating a NEW unified structure that can provide everything we've been lucky enough to have in the past, plus lots more. No, this won't happen overnight, but it must happen and the quickest and least painful way to get to that point will be for people to forget characterizing individuals as 'evil' or 'Santa Claus' and get on with building a new structure that can minimize conflicts (of interest and otherwise), and maximize the promotion of our whole sport.

          It never ceases to amaze me the strength and determination people in our sport always display when it comes to resisting ANY KIND of change. Or, their willingness to accept and believe 100% what "someone told them" at the in-gate, when the clearly demonstrable FACTS say something totally different.

          Are that many people so enamored of getting further by virtue of having friends in high places? or should they need to worry about somehow having their career sabotaged should they not be part of an in-group?

          Isn't this supposed to be all about SPORT; and doesn't the very definition of sport dictate that its "elite" roster be made up of those who demonstrate the skill and determination to prevail in the actual competition? if you are good, who is going to stand in your way? and if you aren't that good yet (or ever), do you really think that you are likely to beat the best of our international competition, and, do you really want to be occupying a position that precludes someone better able to do so (at that time) from having the chance to win?

          Honest self-analysis can be a better aid in any selection process than any computer list.....

          Linda Allen

          [This message was edited by Linda Allen on Oct. 21, 2001 at 12:56 PM.]
          Linda Allen

          Comment


          • While no one right now has the job of checking the saddle pads and equipment in the USAE, I am sure there are 100's out there that have experience with preparing horses and riders to take a long trip away from home.

            New is not necessarily not as good, new ideas can even be better. And, in agreement with Linda those people who have been doing the nitty gritty chores are I am sure not the ones who are signed to any sort of contract since few of the Team Officinados even know who they are.

            I think the beauty of this sport and the people are there are many great an wonderful people you have never heard of or known that are very capable and talented. Since, from the sounds of it the Team members all have their own coaches or are coaches the transition should be very seamless.

            It is possible that once the box is open we will discover how many knowledgable and talented people really participate in this sport and in the international events. Certainly, the riders from the west coast who have never relied on the USET have a great deal of experience and would be happy to share their knowledge and experience.

            It would be in everyone's best interest to cooperate and to share responsibilities. It is never a good idea in any enterprise to have a department so restrictive that no one knows what they do or how they do it.
            http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

            Comment


            • I am not implying nor do I have any first hand knowledge that those who have been part of the human infrastruture of USET in the past will not continue to do so under a different umbrella.

              What I was attempting to point out for the benefit of readers of this thread who may not be privy to the inner workings of both organizations, was just what I said. Although USAE has always done the paperwork, they do not have experience in the other aspects I mentioned. That I know to be fact.

              I felt like some readers had been led to believe that the transition was going to be an easy one and merely pointed out that I do not share that opinion.

              I salute all the "out of the box" thinkers in our industry. Yourself included.

              I started out thinking USET should be the NGB but quite some time ago I came to the conclusion, mostly from what I have read here, that the most workable solution, long term, would be a merger.

              And while we are cleaning house, it is my belief, as I have stated previously, both the head of the USET and the head of USAE should resign. There is apparently so much bad blood, that even if the two organizations merge, nothing significant is likely to get accomplished. Unfortunately the us v. them mentality is likely to prevail.

              And I FIRMLY believe that the President of our NGB should be a salaried position. (It is my understanding that, at present, it is not.)

              Since I consider you an "insider", you inference to the Computer List makes me wonder if something is up someone's sleeve.

              [This message was edited by Emmet on Oct. 21, 2001 at 03:50 PM.]

              Comment


              • Somewhere in one of these threads, Portia posted a time line.

                If my memory serves, the decision of the hearing panel is due October 24? Then the USOC meets in Salt Lake City on October 27 & 28.

                Time does fly when you're having fun.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  I am afraid that a "merger" is not the magic solution, as much as I wish it were. It would mean comprimise on both sides - but IMHO there cannot be comprimise on important issues, which I see as:

                  1) the welfare of the horse. (And I think no one will dispute that one [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                  2) Personal intergrity and ethics - that includes a VERY serious look at ALL the conflict of interest issues which are very thorny indeed. From coaches selling potential Team members horses & being involved with Team decisions regarding soundness, how the Computer list is set up, etc, to owners being involved in same sorts of decisions. Not a good reflection on our sport, IMHO.

                  3) Democracy - that is properly signed secret ballots for elections to Committees, Committee Chairs, and Boards. Open elections for some positions and committees. Infomration about candidates as well as things like by-law changes out to the membership as quickly as possible so it can be discussed.

                  4) Honesty in working habits - HOW many people on committees actually DO anything? If you are elected to a committee (from EITHER organization) you need to take it seriously.

                  5) Salaries and expenses. I have stated before, and I will state again, I find many of the salaries at the USET unconscionable, and I find their expenses for fielding and funding Teams the same.

                  6) Behaviour - I have heard not very nice comments about certain US representatives at Sydney, and I have no tolerance for it. If the NF is paying your way to represent us, you need to behave like a proud representative. Actually, we need to behave that way ANY time we represent our country abroad, as riders or non-riders!

                  I probably could go on, but those are the things that are on my mind tonight. And they are JUST MY (rather jaded at this point) OPINIONS!

                  [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

                  ((edited to give Weatherford a 'mind' rather than a 'ming'))

                  [This message was edited by SoEasy on Oct. 22, 2001 at 08:11 AM.]
                  co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                  Comment


                  • Do I read you right?

                    You are against a merger and think USET should fold?

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      Yeah, Emmet - as I posted before, I think the USET should become a foundation for raising private fund to support a new "International High Performance Division" within the USA Eq. I some of the same people should populate some of the same role, and I think committees and committe chairs should be duly elected (secret ballots), as well as reps to things like the USOC, FEI, etc.

                      (I posted these thoughts somewhere else, I think.)

                      I really believe that, while Gladstone could continue to be headquarters for such a Foundation, there needs to be an overhaul of personel there in the Foundation - fund raising areas. Salaries closer to the norm for non-fo-profits with bonuses based on actual performance, and maybe a bit of knowlege?

                      It hurts to feel this strongly about my warm fuzzy wonderful USET of my childhood years. But I truly believe it is a "ole boys' club" money pit dinosaur who needs to be put to rest.

                      I also suspect I am in a small minority here, and I know that minority does NOT include the biggest movers and shakers at the USA Eq who are working very hard right now for compromise.
                      co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        And, really, WHY CAN'T the organization adhere to the principals I stated a few posts above?? Why DOES it have to be an "in crowd"/ old-boys network??

                        Why can't elections be secret ballots? Why can't people behave properly (especially those who are the most vocal about it?) Why can't Conflicts of Interest be out in the open and people recuse themselves when they are apparent???

                        These issues, to me, seem BASIC!
                        co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                        Comment


                        • History has proved that radical views, although infrequently adopted, do help bring about change.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            Thank you, Emmet. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
                            co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                            Comment


                            • There is no reason why those things can't be done at all. What puts sand in the gears is those who have been accustomed to making the decisions and choices privately and quietly usually do no go away quietly and privately.

                              Power is a seductive thing. People with a lot of money are well aware of their ability to buy people as well as things. We all have things we want and it is said we all have a price. They try to find out what our price is, and then deal with our favorite dreams. Perhaps, a really good horse for an affordable price, perhaps aan introduction to very important people or one of a million other possibilities.

                              Now, if you want to unseat that power it can be costly and painful. Who wants to be shunned? Who wants to be publicly accused of dastardly behavior? True or not these days seems irrelevant, concession and appeasement is so much more comfortable and pleasant.

                              Just as on the issue of the hearing committee, how many can afford to take off 3 or 4 days for meetings and pay the extra expenses of traveling and hotels? Then to be chastised publicly for what some think is a bad decision whatever the outcome. The Licensed officials committee struggles to stay impartial but there are errors because others don't want to be the one with the black ball.

                              Volunteerism has it's problems because with the least financial stability those members might be the most susceptible to intimidation.
                              http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X