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Jimmy Torano Suspended?

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  • #21
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ryan:
    What does cocaine do to a horse?

    "Here's to goodbye, tomorrow's gonna come to soon."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I was told that they give the horses cocaine a while before they show so that when they go into the ring, they are coming down off the high and very mellow.
    I got a webshots album! Yay! Go see : http://community.webshots.com/user/piggiejump


    • #22
      The interesting thing here is the inconsistency of punishments handed down to various "guilty" parties.


      • #23
        I would have to think LONG and HARD, and do a LOT of investigating, before I considered training with someone who had been suspended on a drug related issue.
        \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E


        • #24
          looks like a moderator will be paying this thread a visit shortly. Lilmellow, it looks like you haven't posted here much but unsubstantiated attacks on people are not allowed on the BB - may want to edit your post.

          Hope I am not stepping out of bounds moderators, but this looked a bit extreme [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

          *Behind every good woman lies a trail of men*


          • #25
            Uh-uh... we are not going there.

            You are welcome to share opinions of trainers -- i.e. your opinions of their riding or teaching. But making allegations like that is not going to fly.

            We have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not such things are true, so we keep them off the board as a general rule. If you can find an allegation IN PRINT (i.e. in Horse Show), you can post it. Otherwise, no.

            I don't think this thread is going in a very constructive direction, and if it doesn't change track pretty soon, I'm closing it.

            Ponyperson and JustJumpIt, hope you don't mind, but I deleted your posts as well, since they referred to the other post I deleted. Thanks for being good BBers and paying attention to the rules, though! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

            [This message was edited by Erin on Oct. 15, 2001 at 05:09 PM.]


            • #26
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anyplace Farm:
              So, here is my question: if people get nailed for having horses that have cocaine in their systems, why don't the other authorities also nail them for possession? I guess they have to catch you with it on you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              At a guess, I'd say the necessary evidence/burden of proof wouldn't be there for a criminal case. Plus, someone would have to call the police and report it (unless, of course, the cops get wise and start hanging out at horse shows [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] ).

              Since the trainer is considered solely responsible for the care and custody of the animal, at least as far as the AHSA/USA Equestrian/whatever is concerned, it really doesn't matter *who* was in possession of the banned substance and gave it to the horse. From a criminal prosecution standpoint, that's exactly what matters. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

              ****Bulletin Board Goddess****
              Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!


              • #27
                That's an interesting legality Beezer. Makes sense.

                This may sound odd - but considering how often I've heard that cocaine is a very expensive habit (i have no first or even second hand experience), I was so surprised to hear that people would even consider using it on a horse!

                I just can't imagine "scoring" some cocaine for my horse! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] It just boggles the mind. I mean I cringe at the prices of regular veterinary treatments like bute etc.

                I find it very sad really [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] and like Duffy would think long and hard before training with someone with a past suspension for drug abuse on a horse.
                You Strike Me Still


                • #28
                  Well said Beezer. And that is why the rule reads that way, after many changes.

                  I believe what CBoylen was stating is, many people knowingly or unknowingly were set down for a variety of reasons over the years, depending on what rules were in force at a particular time. And that we should look at each case individually, and maybe not just go for the throat.

                  I do not condone the use of cocaine or any drug. But I do believe we need to look at all aspects of each case on it's own merit.


                  • #29
                    Absolutely true. Each case has it's own merits, understand the amounts are below what would constitute possesion or under the influence in a person.
                    The coke question came up a few years ago too. My question is why on God's green earth would you want to enter the ring on a "mellow" horse to jump the really big sticks??????? Perhaps it was incidental contamination.

                    From Allergy Valley USA
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                    • #30
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
                      ...the horses were actucally given cocaine, or that the grooms/barn help were smoking/snorting it around the horses, and traces got into their system?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      If anyone in the horse show world IS smoking/snorting cocaine around the horses, I bet it isn't the grooms & barn help!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]


                      • #31
                        A - Some grooms/handlers do partake of illeagal substances (you don't have to be rich to "score" a little cocaine now and again)

                        B - Some grooms are known to "relieve" themselves in horses stalls (not enough time for the port-o-let)

                        Cocain in urine - urine on hay - horse eats hay

                        Voila! horse tests positive... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]


                        • #32
                          That is gross...But I have a hard time believeing that grooms would PEE on hay. Even busy ones with no time to use the port-o's.

                          No, I think there is a far more basic explanation (if that could be possible). Someone is giving it/has given it to the horses. Duh. And got caught. (oooops)


                          • #33
                            I still don't get it ??I have heard all the theories about using the coke to get horses worked up then calm on way down ... but honestly it still doesnt wash for me ...so what happens if horse has some sort of bizarre reaction to this drug or something else happens by that I mean that the horse injures itself due to the drug ?Also groom relieving selves on hay horse eating hay is to me unlikely wouldn't the smell of urine make hay unpalatible to the horse?Again i just don't get it callme thick dense whatever .. it all just seems too bizarre !!!!!


                            • #34
                              ...I was unable to find many references to the Shahinian/Gonda/Doubletake case, where cocaine was also allegedly administered. And apparently the trace levels of this drug were not as high in Lancier 4. Someone stated that the trace levels were LESS than what would be legally acceptable for a bank teller. Yet you have attacked Mr Torano. (Read, inconsistent.)

                              My question is why are the two incidents different? Why is the Torano/Sir Ruly Inc/Lancier 4 case apparently more inciteful?

                              Someone needs to refresh my memory but I think the penalties for Shahinian/Gonda were less severe. Is this true?

                              I am not condoning the alleged use of this "medication", however I find the lynching of Mr Torano to be unnaceptable.


                              • #35
                                Oh Bronkbuster!! The Shahinian/Gonda case was discussed plenty as well, I assure you! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
                                \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E


                                • #36
                                  Thanks, Duffy. I knew I could count on you to clear that up for me! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


                                  • #37
                                    For the person that asked what cocaine does to a horse, I heard that it gets them high-high and it is the low thereafter that the rider wants. In the low, the horse is really quiet and dull, almost depressed.

                                    "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me


                                    • #38
                                      ...based on what I have heard over the years. It is my understanding that there are a couple of different situations in which trainers might use cocaine. It differs according to the REASON why one wishes to use it.

                                      Does anyone remember at Indoors a few years ago, two high profile trainers/barn managers used cocaine on a well known show hunter the night before. The horse was left in his stall during the HIGH, but his COME DOWN coincided with his classes that day.

                                      The reasons for doing this; the lunging area was inadequate, overused and the scheduling. If anyone has ever shown at Indoors, you know what I mean.

                                      How the horse was "medicated";IV injection.
                                      (I believe the individuals responsible for this plead guilty. But I'm not sure that I remember correctly.)

                                      It could be used on a jumper as well for the same effect. But more often than not, I would assume it would be used closer to competing to give a little bit more high to a speed horse, or maybe even to help a horse along with pain, since tester's basically search for such drugs as Bute, Banamine, Ace and a few other well known drugs.

                                      I believe that the USA Equestrian testing labs are doing more broad spectrum drug testing. But I wonder what drugs, such as cocaine, are not detected.


                                      • #39
                                        What I'd like to know is why anyone caught giving illegal substances to horses gets away with a mere 60-day "vacation." Let's face it, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Perhaps if the suspension lasted one or two years, it would act as more of a deterent. A trainer making a living showing horses would start to see a serious bite in their income if they were barred from showing for a year or more. 60 days won't have that much of an effect. Me thinks perhaps, that the slap on the wrist, 60-day suspension policy by the AHSA may have an underlying purpose. But it's what I'd expect from this organization. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Obviously, I'm no big fan.


                                        • #40
                                          Since testing occurs AFTER the classes, and the EFFECT of cocaine is truly AFTER it has been metabolized...then a trace amount of cocaine does imply that the drug was used for it's AFTER WEARING OFF calming effects.

                                          Think about it.

                                          Also remember that the Hearing Committee - who hears and decides on violations and punishments - is a volunteer committee of our peers (mostly professionals.) If you think the judgments are not strong enough or whatever, LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD - write committe members letters. And volunteer to CHANGE the system.

                                          I will also say that some H/J pros expressed to me total horror and indignation that an "AMATEUR" or people from OTHER disciplines (!!!) might be able to sit on the hearing panel and make decisions about "our horses and the way we MUST run our business." [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

                                          That attitude really annoys me!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

                                          co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!