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Professionals & Amateurs on the same horse?

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  • Sorry Colin. That scares the ever-loving hell out of me. I don't particularly want to show anywhere near those people. They don't have the scope of experience to handle problems. Those people need to pay their dues at the local level. I'm not sure if I am more appalled that this happens or by your attitude. The same amount of fun can be had at a lower and safer level. When they are just getting started they don't know the difference.

    I have an analogy. You do not put dancers on pointe until they have mastered everything in slippers. No matter how much they scream and cry they must wait. Just because they go out and purchase pointe shoes doesn't mean they get to go on pointe. Once technique is flawless in slippers then they start working the same technique on pointe. This takes years!!!

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bascule:
      Sorry Colin. That scares the ever-loving hell out of me. I'm not sure if I am more appalled that this happens or by your attitude. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      I agree, Colin....appalling...just appalling...

      Comment


      • What is the difference if you show at 3' locally or if you show at 3' at an A rated show? We are not talking about Grand Prix here, it is the three foot adult hunters! Geez, I jumped 3Â’6” in the hunt field as a child- on a medium pony Â…...

        Also, please do not think that because my trainer rides my horse, I am not a proficient amateur.

        The difference between a dancer and a rider is until a dancer develops the proper muscles (which takes years) they are physically UNABLE to go en pointe. The same is not true for a novice rider showing in the 3 foot.

        [This message has been edited by Ash (edited 08-25-2000).]
        ************************************************** **********
        The government is best which governs least.
        -Henry David Thoreau

        Comment


        • These people that Colin says have been riding one year and jumping 3' courses must have some talent. If you can do it at home it doesn't really matter where you ride. Personally, if I was a had only ridden for one year I don't know that I'd make the investment to show the "A" circuit, but hey, to each his own!
          I just hope that these riders don't go in that all crazy schooling ring! That could be scary!
          The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

          Comment


          • You know, something just occurred to me.. Maybe all the over-faced riders are causing these problems in the schooling area...

            Forgot to mention that this is just a joke, not meant to be taken literally [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]!

            [This message has been edited by Tiramit (edited 08-25-2000).]
            "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

            Comment


            • Hmmm, seems this thread has taken a turn towards "Beginners in the Show Ring?"

              I've said before that the H/J world is very exclusive. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] First, it's gotta have money, then it's gotta be good AND have money . . . where oh where is "Gotta love horses and riding and jumping and showing!" ??? Shouldn't that be all that is required??

              I don't think we should exclude anybody from our sport. We should welcome and support and encourage everyone who wants to ride--including Shannon whats-her-face, including beginners who have the good fortune to be nice babysitters. We need to ACCEPT people in order for our industry to be successful, not EXCLUDE them because their ideas don't fit with ours. Maybe our own attitude is part of what prevents lots of exhibitors at our shows.

              If my own ideas of what showing should be prevent me from showing, that is my own choice. Good trainers will always be valued, and there will always be people who do want to learn to ride and can't afford that nice horse to pack them around a 3' course in their first year of riding. And there will always be the clients who will go to the trainer who finds them that packer and lets them show in that division, and who leaves the trainer who doesn't let them show.
              \"If you feel you had a bad ride, how do you think your horse feels?\"

              Comment


              • Rapidly backpedalling.

                I realize I overstated the case (about beginners) to make a point.

                I don't really mean that you shouldn't be ALLOWED to show until you have developed proficiency. I know that I have, at various point in my life, bitten off more than I could chew. And learned from the experience.

                What I really mean is that we should not set the standards to this lowest common denominator. We shouldn't let the needs of the "not yet proficient" rider determine the standards for the rest of us.

                IN(not so)HO, we shouldn't let the "fact" that a less than proficient rider "needs" the trainer to tune the horse be the prime reason to OPPOSE a rule change which would say that "no one other than the enterd rider is allowed to jump the horse at the show".
                Janet

                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                Comment


                • Spunky, Shannon whats-her-face. That gave me a laugh thanks. Doherty thats her last name for what it's worth! Consider this not all people show for the ribbon, points, or money. Maybe it's just fun, and if they want to do it at an "A" show level so be it! Folks I think we have gotten away from the "FUN" Part of this sport! It's being with our horses and friends! Everthing else is just detail.
                  I want to be like Barbie because that bitch has everything!

                  Comment


                  • Good points, Janet. Maybe at the A level, hunters should be expected to be able to negotiate a small bank or liverpool, or at least more handy type courses with bending lines, etc. I've kind of lost my inspiration to do the rated shows since I can jump the exact same courses at local shows for half the money.
                    Man plans. God laughs.

                    Comment


                    • Hmmmmm...Lots of thoughts and ideas here. First, I think there needs to be a distinction between children and adults, those aspiring to be professionals and olympians (or even just 3'6") and those just plain wanting to have a good time, small successes, small goals and NOT aspiring to the grander heights of riding/showing.

                      Speaking from an adult amateur prospective (but with a hopefully budding 9yr old LOL), I see quite a difference between a trainer hopping on an A/A horse at the crack of dawn and maybe even *gasp* jumping it over a few jumps to do their utmost to assure the highest chance/probability of success for the adult later in the day. That is part of a trainer's job, IMO. That is part of what they are being paid to do. Show "prep" is very different from show "warm-up". Even if I don't necessarily "prep" my horse at every show, I do "warm-up" at least myself on my horse. (Sometimes I need a lot more "warming-up" than my horse does. LOL)

                      Part of the reason why I go to shows is to ride/show, but another very big reason is to socialize with the friends that I've made over the years who I don't see except at the shows. This is why I even go to shows when I'm not showing on a pretty regular basis. (That and to cheer on my friends!!) I also like to go out to dinner with these friends, etc. Sorry - getting off track here. What I'm trying to say, is that showing for at least some, is not JUST to prove something to oneself or to someone else as to how well one's done their homework...

                      Also, speaking from one who does plenty of
                      "homework" when I can, as well as plenty of bonding...I don't think I should be "judged" by others as to what I choose to do or not do while at shows with regards to prepping or taking care of my horse. Sometimes I choose to do less or more, depending on whether the assistance is there and available and/or whether I have the energy or desire to do it on a given day. That should be my choice, IMO.

                      Fortunately or unfortunately, my trainers pretty much only go to the rated shows, so that is where my kids will show as well, for the most part. I try to use my judgement, as well as my trainer's, as to when they are going to be ready, which shows, etc. If that means getting a pony jock to get on my kids' pony to do my best job as a parent to make sure that my child has a safe and good time riding, then so be it. Again, you don't see my child at home doing everything she physically can for her pony...Sometimes she does more than other times...Sometimes she's not in the best of moods, but she's human as well! (and stubborn and opinionated, etc LOL) But, I'd like to think that she'll remain at the walk/trot, short stirrup level until she can manage to do most of her own "training" on her pony. Knowing myself and my trainer, that's probably a good bet. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] But, in the meantime, if her pony needs some training, tuning up, correcting, whatever, I'm very happy that we have pony jocks in our barn that are capable to do it. This just helps insure that she will have a good and SAFE time while in this early learning process. Does this make me an over-protective mom, perhaps making my child into one of those "posers". I AM a mom, so maybe I am over-protective at times. But, I'm also trying to do my best to make sure that she becomes a rider AND horsewoman. She loves to watch our vets and farriers, and asks lots of questions. Her favorite grooming tool is hoof paint, LOL. She loves to paint her pony's nails!

                      I'm sorry this has gotten so long and has gotten off track as well. I've been so swamped recently, I haven't had much time to post, let alone read the BB and I sort of (ok, I did) ramble on a bit here...I hope ya'll will forgive me. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
                      \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                      Comment


                      • Well said Duffy! You know you are a true adult amateur when, you look forward to going out to dinner with your friends after the show!LOL

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                        • Original Poster

                          Hattie... do you mean there was ANOTHER reason why we went to shows? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
                          Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                          Comment


                          • No....DMK you are an A/O, you must remain serious......3'6" is BIG, you can't make the mistakes that we do...so it's early to bed for you!!!LOL

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              I think it's back to A/A for me!!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
                              Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                              Comment


                              • Okay....fess up Duffy....going out to those bizarre nightspots is the MAIN reason you go to shows!!!!

                                Comment


                                • I hope i don't start rambling to much and manage to make som sort of sense. These are just my opinions so take them for what they are worth. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

                                  As far as beginners at rated shows, if that is the level their trainer goes to and there are the appropriate classes then they should beable to go. If I could I would much rather take my kids to the rated shows, the courses are nicer.

                                  Pros riding amature horses, I think under normal circumstances the A/A or A/O should be able to warm up their own horse, (and themselves) before the class. If they want their trainer to show the horse in a different division it should be their choice.
                                  Some people need to work for a living and can't be at the horse show all of the time.
                                  They also want to go have fun with their friends so they pay the day fees and groom fees to allow them to do that.

                                  The course yes I would like to see more challenging courses that are interesting and fun to ride with banks and wter and fun stuff like that. But I also don't want to see the hunter classes that we have today disappear either.

                                  Maybe a handicapping system for the horse/rier combination. Like they do in polo to help level the playing field, of compition. It sounds like a lot of people are frustrated be cause they don't feel competive the way the system is set up. I probably should have posted this on Linda Allen's thread. Sorry to have rambled, y'all are lucky I am tired of typing. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img].

                                  Comment


                                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bascule:

                                    Also, something else I feel strongly about (for myself at least). If I can't fix any problems myself or with me on my horse and my trainer on the ground, then I shouldn't be showing at the A level. That is when it is time for me to school and do homework---- at home.

                                    [This message has been edited by Bascule (edited 08-23-2000).]
                                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    To me, it sounds like you think the average A/A should be able to train their own horse. I can't imagine why someone so capable would be wasting their time at the A/A when they could be winning in he greens or the a/os!

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spunky:
                                      [B
                                      I don't think we should exclude anybody from our sport. We should welcome and support and encourage everyone who wants to ride--including Shannon whats-her-face, including beginners who have the good fortune to be nice babysitters. We need to ACCEPT people in order for our industry to be successful, not EXCLUDE them because their ideas don't fit with ours. Maybe our own attitude is part of what prevents lots of exhibitors at our shows.

                                      If my own ideas of what showing should be prevent me from showing, that is my own choice. Good trainers will always be valued, and there will always be people who do want to learn to ride and can't afford that nice horse to pack them around a 3' course in their first year of riding. And there will always be the clients who will go to the trainer who finds them that packer and lets them show in that division, and who leaves the trainer who doesn't let them show. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Spunky, you are so smart!. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                                      Comment


                                      • I haven't read through this entire thread, but I must agree with Duffy and also what Rusti said (other than he handicapping thing?).

                                        I have an adult horse that has no pro rides at shows or home anymore - he knows his job now, but we used to do the greens(pro) and a/o (me) with pro schools in the AM before we got to this point. If I thought he needed a tune up- in a heartbeat he would get one.

                                        I have several greenies now that have both pro and me train on. Pro rides it and I do, been doing it this way for years and years- since green pony days! Works for me and I would not change a thing. Do I like doing some things myself-YES! Do I like having pro sit on my horse- YES! The more info/input the better. I would never do it ALL by myself.

                                        AND, I wouldn't plan on having a pro jump on to warm up right before I went in the ring, BUT if I was having a problem right before my class, I wouldn't hesitate! Can't say I have seen this as a normal occurance.

                                        Usually, pro schools horse in AM and maybe shows in warm-up or earlier division. Then student schools before his/her division and goes directly into the ring.

                                        Cudos to you Bascule for having the satisfaction of doing it all on your own! Seriously! You are entitled to your opinion.

                                        And for the 3' "beginners" at A shows - more power to them- I hope they are having fun. I do not have a problem with it. "Apalling"- hardly!!

                                        Okay, those are my thoughts!

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Twister:
                                          Spunky, you are so smart!. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                          Thanks Twister! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] Always love a compliment, especially on Monday morning!! LOL
                                          \"If you feel you had a bad ride, how do you think your horse feels?\"

                                          Comment

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