• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

USAEq Proposed rule changes...what do you think of THIS one? (re Braiding)

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • USAEq Proposed rule changes...what do you think of THIS one? (re Braiding)

    Quote taken from article in today's COTH: "A proposal submitted by the Junior Hunter Committee is once again causing a stir. Article 2423.9 (and Article 2815.3, which specifically addresses junior hunter classes) proposes that unbraided hunters will not be penalized.

    W. Gary Baker, a show manager and exhibitor from Middleburg, Va., strongly disagrees with this proposal and countered it with another (Article 2423.1.7): “All horses showing in A-rated divisions should be properly presented for the competition ring with their mane braided. The braiding of the tail is optional. Any horse not properly presented may be penalized by the judge.”

    The Junior Hunter Committee’s unanimous support of their proposal stems from their efforts to reduce show-related expenses and eliminate the gray area that leaves exhibitors wondering if a judge will penalize an unbraided horse. “The charges for braiding are ridiculous,” said trainer Don Stewart, chairman of the Junior Hunter Committee. “Even the prize money is less. It’s about $70 for braiding for about $40 in prize money. We’re pricing ourselves out of the market.”

    Baker considers the Junior Hunter Committee’s proposal to be cutting corners, not cutting costs. “I think what the Junior Hunter Committee is doing is totally wrong,” said Baker. “It’s been tradition for years to be braided in the ring without it being in the rule book.” Baker said that allowing horses to compete unbraided is lowering the standards and neglects the importance of presenting the horse properly.

    Stewart refuted the accusation, observing that most jumpers look neat without being braided. He said there are more important elements to be judged, such as pace and jumping style, without worrying about braiding."




    Okay, wait a minute Don. We should quit braiding for the Junior Hunters because it's TOO EXPENSIVE? How about teaching all the precious poopsies to DO IT THEMSELVES? That way it doesn't cost anything, poopsies will *gasp* learn a new horsemaship skill, and we can preserve at least one tradition in the hunter ring.

    Give me a break. This really irritates me.

    What do you guys think about this?

    ~Sara
    *Charter member of the GM Fan Club*
    *Member of the Dirt Divers 78th Airborne Unit, ATH Squadron*

    (Just added braiding to the title - as people were starting other threads on the subject! W)

    [This message was edited by Weatherford on Dec. 31, 2002 at 11:57 AM.]
  • Original Poster

    #2
    Quote taken from article in today's COTH: "A proposal submitted by the Junior Hunter Committee is once again causing a stir. Article 2423.9 (and Article 2815.3, which specifically addresses junior hunter classes) proposes that unbraided hunters will not be penalized.

    W. Gary Baker, a show manager and exhibitor from Middleburg, Va., strongly disagrees with this proposal and countered it with another (Article 2423.1.7): “All horses showing in A-rated divisions should be properly presented for the competition ring with their mane braided. The braiding of the tail is optional. Any horse not properly presented may be penalized by the judge.”

    The Junior Hunter Committee’s unanimous support of their proposal stems from their efforts to reduce show-related expenses and eliminate the gray area that leaves exhibitors wondering if a judge will penalize an unbraided horse. “The charges for braiding are ridiculous,” said trainer Don Stewart, chairman of the Junior Hunter Committee. “Even the prize money is less. It’s about $70 for braiding for about $40 in prize money. We’re pricing ourselves out of the market.”

    Baker considers the Junior Hunter Committee’s proposal to be cutting corners, not cutting costs. “I think what the Junior Hunter Committee is doing is totally wrong,” said Baker. “It’s been tradition for years to be braided in the ring without it being in the rule book.” Baker said that allowing horses to compete unbraided is lowering the standards and neglects the importance of presenting the horse properly.

    Stewart refuted the accusation, observing that most jumpers look neat without being braided. He said there are more important elements to be judged, such as pace and jumping style, without worrying about braiding."




    Okay, wait a minute Don. We should quit braiding for the Junior Hunters because it's TOO EXPENSIVE? How about teaching all the precious poopsies to DO IT THEMSELVES? That way it doesn't cost anything, poopsies will *gasp* learn a new horsemaship skill, and we can preserve at least one tradition in the hunter ring.

    Give me a break. This really irritates me.

    What do you guys think about this?

    ~Sara
    *Charter member of the GM Fan Club*
    *Member of the Dirt Divers 78th Airborne Unit, ATH Squadron*

    (Just added braiding to the title - as people were starting other threads on the subject! W)

    [This message was edited by Weatherford on Dec. 31, 2002 at 11:57 AM.]

    Comment


    • #3
      I braided my horse and the rest of the barns lol. I haven't paid for my own entry fees in years because I learned to braid in pony club when i was 12 and just kept doing it. I made 600 bucks in a 3 day show! Just braid your own damn horse or come up with the money. That's like saying that we should start wearing polo shirts in the medal classes because it's cheaper.

      ~~Sarah~~
      *The Purple Princess*
      ~Sarah~
      The Purple Princess
      www.geocities.com/idyllinc/home.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Gut reaction...........who cares?

        Hunter exhibitors will still present their horses as tradition dictates........braided in "real" divisions and not in the prep ones such as Low or Hunter Warm Up on the early competition days when that is their only class. Braided for all rated classes.....if an individual would like to braid for all thats ok.

        My mare has clearly told me that braids itch so all warm ups are unbraided. Rateds and Classics are braided.

        I need no rule to tell me this and would resent one that did. It is not a performance issue and need not be legislated.

        Just MHO.

        The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.
        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

        Comment


        • #5
          Count this as another vote for teaching the up and coming prince and princesses to braid for themselves! One of my friend's said her trainer when she was a kid made all her students put in six braids everytime they rode so that they stayed proficient at it. What is wrong with that? So many things in the show world are getting watered down as it is. This is one tradition we need to maintain.

          "I drank what?" Socrates
          \"The credit belongs to those people who are actually in the arena...who know the great enthusiasms, the great devotions to a worthy cause; who at best, know the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, fail while daring greatly, so that their

          Comment


          • #6
            But need it be legislated? More rules and more beaurocracy (sp?):?
            I think not.

            The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.
            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

            Comment


            • #7
              If it is not affordable for you to pay a braider ,and you want it badly enough ,you will learn to braid.
              I did.

              It is tradition and should stay at least for the rated divsions in my opinion.

              Comment


              • #8
                Perhaps we don't need anymore red tape, but I'm with the "learn to do it yourself" crowd too. Personally I like to think that the Junior Hunters represent a higher quality horse and rider combination, a higher level of competition, and therefore I am a strong believer of the braiding. If I were a judge, I'd like to see every horse braided if possible. To me it represents the rider's pride in their horse/riding, and a respect for the officials.

                If you lose yourself, your courage soon will follow. So be strong tonight, remember who you are... (Bryan Adams, "Sound the Bugle")
                \"Horses change lives. They give our young people confidence and self esteem, they provide peace and tranquility to troubled souls, they give us hope.\"
                - T. Robinson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Neither rule proposal should be supported, in my view.

                  Is there a question here as to whether we judges are able to make a distinction as to the quality of each competitor based on performance alone? It is my contention that we judges have the sense and the discretion to know when and to what degree "turnout" should influence our decisions.

                  Observation: those who are organized, able and talented enough to produce those quality rounds are usually the ones who are organized, able, and talented enough to do it braided, and also have the sense to decide when braids aren't warrented. It seems rather insecure to worry about whether one is being beaten by a good set of braids, as opposed to a superior performance. IMO, confidence will likely not improve simply by dictating that one must braid, or by validating an inferior turnout.

                  Braiding, while a big expense, is a free market proposition. It would seem that negotiating a lower price might be in order if the object is to save money. Throwing the braiders out of work would not seem to be a good or sensible solution, especially since braiding is one of the very few ways that those without endless funds can work to defray costs.

                  MCL

                  [This message was edited by M. O'Connor on Dec. 27, 2002 at 07:52 PM.]
                  Inner Bay Equestrian
                  Facebook
                  KERx

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Judge will not give bonus points for braids over performance.

                    I agree that little important as this rule may seem it is a part of horsemanship and ech junior should be able to turnout their horse and present it properly without paying braiders and groomers at every show.

                    There may be instances where because of timing the junior should be in bed sleeping and not braiding, but those times are few and far between.

                    It's like here at the farm we have our valet rule, if Suzie doesn't want to stay and put away her horse properly we charge. If Mom and Dad are willing to pay rather than have Suzie learn to do these things and be responsible so be it, but to save that same Mom and Dad a few bucks by getting rid of the braiding is once against reaching for the lowest denominator.

                    I mean really if they don't have to learn to ride and are happy passengers shouldn't they at least learn how to groom and prepare a horse? Otherwise maybe we should have the shows on Merry-go-round horses.
                    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is not about merry go round horses nor is it about so called perchers. It's a proposal that horses not be penalized at A shows if not braided.
                      I remember when Jimmy Williams roached all his horses manes back when in protest of stupid rules having nothing to do with performance.

                      Braiding may be neat and good to know but means squat in evaluating the performance of the horse on the course. It is simply tradition and need not be legislated.

                      So called "poopsie" is probably in school on the day of her class till 3 or so then has a car ride to the showgrounds to show at 5 then a return to go to school the next day.

                      Paying a braider is no reflection of riding ability or lack thereof.

                      The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.
                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by findeight:


                        So called "poopsie" is probably in school on the day of her class till 3 or so then has a car ride to the showgrounds to show at 5 then a return to go to school the next day.

                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Not where I live. Junior hunters at all the A shows during the school year around here (Zone 2) go on Saturday and Sunday.

                        And my "poopsie", who is doing the junior hunters, braids her horse herself.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          At least the zone 5 shows I do have the Juniors late afternoon on Thursday/ Friday, they do come from school and go back that night.
                          Even in the summer many in my barn are involved in summer school.

                          The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.
                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Is this no braiding proposal the Junior Hunter Commitees way of trying to make the Junior Hunter division more affordable; which would maybe make it more appealing. Well, some how I dont think most of the kids competing in the Junior Hunter division are that hard up for cash. And I dont see how just taking away the braiding fee would make the division more affordable for those of us that lack $$$. I am also sure you can find someone to braid for less than 70$ (or you could do it your self!!!). I am all for making A rated divisons more affordable, but I dont think this is the way to go about it. Plus, horses and ponies look so darn cute all braided up. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                            The revolution is coming. Muhahahahahahaha!!!!!
                            The revolution is coming. Muhahahahahahaha!!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No one is saying that paying someone to braid is what the rule change is about. All I'm saying is that braiding is braiding and it's been done forever and should be done at all times in every class. Now whether you want to pay someone, do it yourself, etc that's up to you but you should still do it. Horseback riding is a detail oriented sport. The same people who won't take the time to find away to get their horses braided are the same ones who won't take the time to brush off the mud between a horses legs between classes or to set up their legs after a hard day at the show. It takes all of 20 minutes to braid a horse. I know...i braid all the time. I learned as a junior...i got a show schedule in advance and turned it into the school and let them know when i wouldn't be there and did all of my homework in advance including tests. I planned my high school schedule fm freshman year on so that I could graduate in three years instead of four. So yes if you are committed to the sport you will find a way to get things done. Why should the sport have to change to accomadate you? Why can't you find 20 minutes to braid? Besides if you are SO busy that you can't take time to braid because of school and what not then who is putting standing wraps on your horse, feeding it, mucking it's stall, turning it out, grazing it, etc etc etc.? Probably your groom or someone else you're paying...well then pay them to braid your horse as well. It's about respect for the history and tradition of the sport.

                              ~~Sarah~~
                              *The Purple Princess*
                              ~Sarah~
                              The Purple Princess
                              www.geocities.com/idyllinc/home.html

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Do you all realize that this is because he got in a fight with his braider in Jacksonville? I was fortunate (or unfortunate enough...) to be there for it ALL


                                This is a horse SHOW, you should SHOW OFF your horse.

                                Marion
                                *Gregor* *Amalia*

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandstone:
                                  Do you all realize that this is because he got in a fight with his braider in Jacksonville?



                                  <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  You have GOT to be kidding!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

                                  Oh brother!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Don has been trying to 'ban' braiding for years. It is, of course, because it is money flowing out of his customer's pocket that does not flow into his.

                                    If Don wanted to make showing more affordable, perhaps he should address the common practice of 'adding on'. In fact, I know of one trainer who added on to a horse owned by and supported by an employee and then he billed for a commission from the employee! I also know of a trainer who used to pay the braider directly, leave the braids in for the next day, and billed the customers for two days braiding! He stopped doing this once his braider caught on.

                                    Braiding IS expensive! Save yourself the money by doing it yourself. It is not rocket surgery. Monkeys could do it.

                                    Someone once had the audacity to suggest that doing it yourself was not always an option, since the horse was being shown by the pro the first two days and the owner wasn't there. Hello? You can double division on full care and you can't afford the braiding? Please! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

                                    ****
                                    Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
                                    *****
                                    You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      The sad fact of life here is that .........
                                      Life isn't "fair" anyway...!!!!!! Get over it...

                                      I have a huge barn of people who, for the most part, cannot afford to ride at all BUT they are careful, organized and efficient with their riding and showing money and somehow they do it.

                                      For the people I have that the $70 a day will make a HUGE difference to I give them choices (that's life...choices)...they can braid themselves, pay for it OR go to the smaller shows where their very limited money is better spent on classes instead of braiding.

                                      The "smaller" shows are so varied that ANY rider can be successful there...providing goals and initiatives are discussed in detail first. Yes it means sacrifice of the BIG "A" show ring stuff....
                                      But that's a reality of life .... if you don't got $$ sometimes you don't always get "it".

                                      My clients are also not allowed to leave the braids in overnight FOR ANY REASON!!! Un-braid every night ..... not so they will have to spend more $$ braiding but because we are hopefully horseman first. HORSES HATE THOSE BRAIDS and to have to itch all night and show properly the next day I don't believe it fair to the animal...

                                      The word we are missing here is horse SHOW. The shows are where we go to "show" our horses and that means getting into the whole deal...

                                      I for one am capable of making the decision as to braid or not and I make that decision on a daily basis at all shows..including big ones.

                                      Yes, it costs money... but learn to do it yourself ... there are amateurs at Indio doing their own braiding...there are Juniors braiding their own also... get the little rascals to the barn braiding and off of the berm socializing in the TS's!!!

                                      Please, braiding probably won't make a difference to a quality judge BUT it will make a difference to the class of the Hunter ring........

                                      I LOVE the beauty and polish of a beautiful hunter WITH BRAIDS on course.....

                                      http://www.foxpointefarm.com
                                      http://www.go-sho.org
                                      [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                                      [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Maybe Don's time would be better spent getting it so the riders don't have to wear all those expensive clothes... AND buy all that expensive tack

                                        Thought process......
                                        Since the class is judged on the horse, what difference does it make what the rider wears?? Since it is judged on the horse, braid the horse and don't spend so much $$ on the $400 jackets, $200 shirts, $300.00 TS's and the gloves and the embroidery of monograms... let the riders wear chaps and levi's....

                                        Why have nice bridles if the horse is what is being judged??? Seems like any old bridle would do since the judges are looking at the horse and not the tack anyway!!

                                        Seems like as reasonable a fight for a rule change as the one he is proposing......

                                        GEEZ !!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't we have better things to do than fuss over this at USAEq ??? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

                                        http://www.foxpointefarm.com
                                        http://www.go-sho.org
                                        [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                                        [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X