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paul valliere clinic

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  • paul valliere clinic

    Anyone ever heard of him or rode with him? A friend of mine is or had a clinic with him. Plus, I don't want to be a total dope and be like "Who's that?" if he is a BNT. Since there is a little anonymity here, I thought I would ask. Plus, you guys seem to know everything about everyone and offer great insights on trainers!

    TS Clique*Chestnut TB Jumper Clique*GPA Clique*Do It Yourself Clique
  • Original Poster

    Anyone ever heard of him or rode with him? A friend of mine is or had a clinic with him. Plus, I don't want to be a total dope and be like "Who's that?" if he is a BNT. Since there is a little anonymity here, I thought I would ask. Plus, you guys seem to know everything about everyone and offer great insights on trainers!

    TS Clique*Chestnut TB Jumper Clique*GPA Clique*Do It Yourself Clique


    • #3
      i've never met him or ridden with him.
      but do a search on this board or on google and i'm sure you'll find plenty of information that will help with your decision.


      • #4
        If I remember correctly there was quite a thread about him last year!!! Do a search and you'll see what I mean.

        "I'll lean on you and you lean on me and we'll be okay"
        - Dave Matthews

        "We all take different paths in life, but no matter where we go, we take a little of each other everywhere."
        - Tim McGraw
        "The joys of motherhood are never fully experienced until the children are in bed" UK


        • #5
          whoops, double post!


          • #6
            He's got quite a name for himself actually. IMO he is a great equitation trainer and I would leap at the chance to ride with him.. most of his kids usually win.
            Unfortunatley, a while back he was involved in a serious scandal with killing horses for insurance money (I'm sure you will be hearing more about it from one of the many haters of him on this board [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]) It's okay not to have heard of him.. everyone had a point where they didn't know who he was. If you are asking whether or not to take a lesson with him I say go for it.. even if you don't like someone it doesnt hurt to take an extra lesson - u never know what could come out of that.



            • #7
              Oh Lordy. Do a search. And be careful of those flames [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] The people that ride with him ride great.

              I like Paul Valliere. It goes with my "I will not be sorry for anything I've said" pledge! lol... Let me go strap on my unapproved helmet and get out of this topic before it's too late [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

              Check out my barn's site:
              Centre Equestre de la Houssaye
              Comment est-ce qu'on dit <quiche> en anglais? Mapi LaJoux


              • #8
                Ain't touching this with a ten foot pole-or prod

                "You can tell a gelding, you can ask a mare, but you must discuss it with a stallion." - Unknown


                • #9
                  oh yes and we all know how important winning is.

                  Personally, I would never ride with him but to be fair, he really did write some excellent articles in Practical Horseman a few years back. I'm sure he is an excellent trainer but I would have a problem just because of the past ethics issues.


                  • #10
                    Probably one of the best of all time - in the equitation ring certainly.

                    But, I wouldn't give him the time of day. Certainly wouldn't send one of my kids to him for a clinic.

                    I watched poor Rosseau Plattiere dragged up the driveway in Sugarbush for his autopsy. I will never forget.

                    Others involved in horse-killing-for-insurance moved on to other businesses. Paul V remains.


                    • #11
                      To anyone who ever wonders why people (myself included) remain so vehement about this topic ... this kind of question is why.


                      • #12
                        This would be one of them.


                        • Original Poster

                          thanks for the quick replies! I am very familiar with lots involved with the insurance killings, actually showed side-by-side with them (and still do).

                          I also talked with my friend and she did have the clinic with him. She said it was the best clinic she ever did and would definitley ride with him again, but that was before I told her about some of these posts, so now maybe her opinion is swayed a little.

                          TS Clique*Chestnut TB Jumper Clique*GPA Clique*Do It Yourself Clique


                          • #14
                            Well, I think that that is an easy question to answer:

                            Back in the 1990's (1992? 1994?), Paul's clients had a horse that was not going to be as much of a money-maker as was anticipated, and Paul needed to get them out of the horse (e.g. get the insurance money).

                            My recollection is that Paul Valliere had the horse killed by Tommy Burns (aka "Tim Ray" aka "Sandman" (his nickname for putting horses to sleep)). Moreover, media reports from back then intimated that Tim Ray also was friends with Barney Ward. I cannot confirm that, however. Does anyone know if Tim/Tommy was involved in Barney Ward's insurance hits?

                            Anyway, my recollection (and that of a good friend of mine) is that it Tommy killed the horse or at least set it up, and then Tommy fingered Paul, and Paul immediately turned State's evidence to save his sorry rump from a long time in the hooscow.

                            FYI: The horse was electrocuted. Why Paul would have thought it was least painful for the animal to be electrocuted is beyond me. I suspect if Paul had a shred of humanity (notwithstanding the fact that he was about to have a horse killed), he would have ordered it done with a lethal injection of tranquilizer, which, I am led to believe, is less painful than electrocution.

                            Would I take a clinic with Paul? Uhm, I'd have to think hard about that.


                            • #15
                              Super enhanced flame retardant suit on.

                              Okay now. I rode with him in the equitation as a junior and in my early years doing jumpers (but no longer ride with him) and can tell you first hand what a great trainer he was (and is). His drilling in the equitation all those years is what now allows me to hop on a horse on weekends and show, when I do not even get the chance to practice much since I work long hours to afford it now and keep my horse 5 hours away from my home.

                              I enjoyed riding with him because he so totally loves what he does and is so excited when one of his kids or horses wins (in a positive way) that it makes you really want to perform for him. Sort of like Bella Karoli (sp?). He did not favor his clients with money but treated everyone with or without talent equally and worthy of help - as long as they tried (I know since I was not the most talented nor did my family spend a lot of money).

                              I continued to ride with him for a while after the issues surfaced and was constantly asked why I did not leave. Obviously I do not condone what he did. My response was, and continues to be that he made a mistake and he knows it. He was human and made a mistake and has paid and continues to pay for it. He treated my horses extremely well and showed a much greater concern for their well-being than other trainers that I have since ridden with who publicly have squeaky clean reputations. In my opinion he is at heart a good man. There are a number of other professionals out there that I cannot say that about.


                              • #16
                                If I remember from "Hotblood" correctly, the way they electrocuted the horses mimicked (sp?) colic, which is something the insurance would pay out on.


                                • #17
                                  ....And into whose after that?? For what purpose??You gotta wonder.

                                  Vote w/ your feet. Take a clinic from a clinician w/ a better reputation.

                                  Member: TB Clique, Georgia Clique, Rust TS Clique, Willem FC, DIY Clique, Ebayers Anonymous Clique, Reads Forums At Work Clique, Lame/Sick/Injured Horse Clique
                                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


                                  • #18
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sister:
                                    If I remember from "Hotblood" correctly, the way they electrocuted the horses mimicked (sp?) colic, which is something the insurance would pay out on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    Thanks, Sister! So in addition to being a great trainer [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img], Paul Valliere is a smart man.

                                    Note to self: If I am ever going to kill Buster for insurance money, make it look like colic.

                                    Oh, Sister, do you know, did Tommy Burns (aka Tim Ray aka Sandman (how cute!)) actually DO the electrocution or did he just set it up? My recollection is that he was charged with or pled to conspiracy, but I could be wrong.


                                    • #19
                                      The reason that it is "conspiracy" and not, say "horse killing" is that killing a horse, however awful, is not against the law. Killing a horse and then pretending it was an accident so you can defraud your insurance company is against the law.
                                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


                                      • #20
                                        I would never knowingly give my money to someone with such serious ethical issues. I don't care if he's the second coming of horsemanship and training; I'd never pay him for anything.

                                        I'm with Lizviola -- vote with your feet.

                                        New York Horse Rescue