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The differences between NOW and THEN....

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  • The differences between NOW and THEN....

    LCasty asked this question:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I was interested in comparing what I have been reading in the Chronicle about the current riders and what riders of the past might think should they log on and voice their opinion of what it was like being a rider 20 years ago as compared to today. Nothing more! I sometimes watch the video of my winning the Maclay at the Garden and I must say its surreal - times have changed so much - merely curious about what the riders and trainers are thinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I think it is an interesting question, as she is (ahhemmm....) singificantly (oh dear [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] ) YOUNGER than I am (and some other people on the BB!) I think the differences between the 80's and today are probably far more subtle than the differences between the 60's and now. How do you view them?
    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!
  • Original Poster

    #2
    LCasty asked this question:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I was interested in comparing what I have been reading in the Chronicle about the current riders and what riders of the past might think should they log on and voice their opinion of what it was like being a rider 20 years ago as compared to today. Nothing more! I sometimes watch the video of my winning the Maclay at the Garden and I must say its surreal - times have changed so much - merely curious about what the riders and trainers are thinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I think it is an interesting question, as she is (ahhemmm....) singificantly (oh dear [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] ) YOUNGER than I am (and some other people on the BB!) I think the differences between the 80's and today are probably far more subtle than the differences between the 60's and now. How do you view them?
    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

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    • #3
      I think that in the 70s when we galloped we really GALLOPED. This is the latest one that seems to be stuck in my craw. Too often are we not seeing Big Eq were "hand gallop" shows a teeny lengthening of stride?

      I have also noticed that "riders, sit the trot please" gets slower and slower. And "extend the trot" is the same as Go Faster.

      I would also love to see more jumps WITHOUT wings.

      Comment


      • #4
        I rode local hunters in the mid 80's as a novice AA. I switched to dressage [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] and had no occasion to go to a H/J show until last year.

        At that time I was helping our show manager set the course for our clubs local show ( which VHV so kindly wrote about in the COTH). I asked her, "Where are the rolltop ( my fave jump) and the coops?" "Oh, we don't use them anymore."

        [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

        The course was all rails , panels and brush boxes. It just didn't look challenging or exciting. She implied this is how the trainers want it. And trainers drive the show biz.

        _\\]
        -- * > hoopoe
        The ancient Greeks did not write obituaries. They only wanted to know if you had a passion.
        _\\]
        -- * > hoopoe
        Procrastinate NOW
        Introverted Since 1957

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        • #5
          This is 60's...and this rider is 10 years old. (you might have to scroll down a bit to see the picture)

          MCL
          Equitation Crusader
          "r" H/J/HEq
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          • #6
            Well, how many 10 year olds do you see today looking that secure in a pony class, let alone a junior hunter class as shown in that picture??

            I too have noticed the incredibly slow sitting trot. I watched a few big eq classes at the last A show I went to and thought that it looked really stupid to slow down to the speed of an earthworm just to "sit pretty" at the trot.

            Aleesha

            DRESSAGE, n.: the passionate pursuit of perfection by the obsessively imperfect

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            • #7
              I'm a bit too young to be able to voice personal experiences about competing in the eighties, but I've been around all that time regardless, so I'm going to mention a few things that stand out in my mind. First of all, back to back trips. I remember when they first started to do that, somewhere around 82 or 83 I think? How on earth would our shows finish on time now if you had to get people out of the barn twice? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] Next, Tb's. Remember when the non-TB class was included, and rarely filled? Remember when conformation hunters didn't belong in front of a cart? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Speaking of which, our conf horse was grand champion at the garden in the early eighties, but we didn't live on the road all year to get there. I don't think we would have qualified now, going to the same number of shows. Also, the divisions. There are a number of recently invented divisions that you wouldn't have seen in the eighties. Flat tack. Orange martingale stoppers. Oats. Bute AND banamine [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Tails without pinwheels. (Have I forgotten anything? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ) But for me, anyway, the big difference is in the people. My godfather could ride, train, shoe, braid, break babies, cure just about anything, groom, AND muck out [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] And he won, and he wasn't alone. Where are these people now?

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm thinking back to the 70s when hunter classes were held on outdoor hunt courses and you could gallop between fences. Oh yeah, and automatic releases.

                Most hunters and jumpers were TBs. I think someone else mentioned the non-TB classes.

                Maybe I wasn't paying attention back then (I was already an adult when I started to ride and I had no kids then), but I don't remember short and long stirrup divisions.

                I'm sure there are more, but I'm tired.
                People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

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                • #9
                  I wasn't doing the hunters so much in the 80's (or 60's) - more horse trials.

                  But I can say that there was no such thing as baby novice. We all started out jumping big-doesn't-fall-down jumps, we galloped these courses on our 14.3 grade ponies that also doubled as field hunters, cart ponies, swimming partners.... When we were done for the day, we bathed, pulled braids, mucked stalls, fed, etc....and ourselves came absolutely last. No handing off the horse and popping open a soda or beer or whatever.

                  I do remember orange martingale stoppers, flat tack, rolled tack, NO SADDLE PADS!!, auto release, no fleece lined open front boots, really airy verticals, and humble, courteous juniors (I know not all juniors fall into this category). We also didn't wear approved helmets in the ring. On cross country we wore skull caps, but I had a variety of plastic velvet caps with elastic chin straps!!!

                  Oh, I'm feeling very old now! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                  _______________________

                  There is no crying in baseball!!!

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                  • #10
                    I just remember in the 80's how hard it was making the transition from children's jumpers to the juniors without any classes in between. Now there is modified jr./am., low jr./am., med. jr./am. They have classes for each hole higher you go!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Great topic! More than subtle. Differences, everywhere from fences, courses, distances to riders knowledge. Where do you start???

                      Am with Coreene in that I would love to see more galloping distances, but both rings and courses are set for cantering.. Outside courses are from a bygone era. Very few left anywhere. Legal eagles have also changed our sport, in some instances not too productively either. Everything we do in the show ring, is backed up with thoughts that no one must get hurt. So, conservative, ends up being the word.

                      Training, both of rider and horse has also taken on some short cuts. All of these factors, plus many others have changed our sport.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ditto Finzean and Just Me.

                        SLW
                        "It is I."

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                        • #13
                          I saw someone riding their hunter today (at a jumper show) and i couldn't get over the fact that the horse had NO IMPULSION WHATSOEVER! ! ! I mean the horse crawled up to the fence, jumped it, and just went along after it. I mean it's really nice when a horse can keep an even pace, but they should be using themselves properly.

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                          • #14
                            Amen Spider.....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One thing I remember is when we did a course on the hunt course it was a hunt course! Not a ring with 5's on the outside and 6 on the diagonal!

                              Man what a cute kid!!
                              [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
                              \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
                              Stevie Nicks

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                              • #16
                                Well, my first A show was at Indio in 1971 when I won Eq. on the Flat, 15-17. I've pretty much been showing ever since. The main difference (and this is my west coast perspective) was the huge influence Jimmy Williams and Flintridge was on all of us. Everyone had that ol' exaggerated two-point around the course, and I mean, we GALLOPED! Striding wasn't all that important in the lines. What mattered was if your horse jumped out of a comfortable stride. Yes, it was pretty much a following hand/automatic release. Oh, and the jumps were quite solid: wall, coops, brush racks, etc. None of this four elements per obstacle, of ground line, flower box, 1/4 round, gate.

                                "Friends don't let friends eat fish tacos."

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                                • #17
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
                                  Speaking of which, our conf horse was grand champion at the garden in the early eighties, but we didn't live on the road all year to get there. I don't think we would have qualified now, going to the same number of shows.
                                  My godfather could ride, train, shoe, braid, break babies, cure just about anything, groom, AND muck out [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] And he won, and he wasn't alone. Where are these people now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  These are the ones that drive me nuts
                                  <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Point Chasers<LI>Lack of horseman ship[/list]

                                  **Courtney** and
                                  Jack ~On the Rocks~ PLEASE [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
                                  Momo ~Just My Luck~
                                  Love can sometime be magic, but magic can sometimes be just an illusion!

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                                  • #18
                                    Here's one of those walls Merry referred to, circa 1970. (And a big ditto on her comments regarding striding and galloping....)

                                    Fences today are certainly more attractive to look at, what with the liberal use of flowers and other decorative elements. Lots of the fences we jumped way back when had no 'window dressing' whatsoever!

                                    "Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller
                                    In Honor of dublin aka Dee Dee 07/24/53-02/07/03
                                    ~~~~~
                                    \"Of course, that\'s just my opinion. I could be wrong.\" - Dennis Miller
                                    *Go Bruins - Go Niners*

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                                    • #19
                                      Dublin and M.O'Connor, thanks for sharing those beautiful pics. As much as I hate nostalgia on principle, I find myself genuinely mourning the "good old days" of horseshowing and professional horsemanship. The general dumbing down, the sacrifices to the almighty "bottom line", and above all the agonizing boredom of watching the average hunter round today--if riding had been like this when I started out, who knows if I would have kept going. Those photos make the typical COTH ego-trip ad pic look really sick.
                                      www.baymarefarm.net

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Quote: "Originally posted by C.Boylen:
                                        My godfather could ride, train, shoe, braid, break babies, cure just about anything, groom, AND muck out [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] And he won, and he wasn't alone. Where are these people now?"


                                        There are still some out there. My husband and your godfather are from the same mold. But, people look at my husband as, he is the one that is not the norm. I am proud of the way we choose to do things.

                                        Let the point chasers with lack of horsemaship have a go at it for a while. See what the future brings them! Not much, I see them having to call the vet just to put on shipping wraps because they will not be able to do a thing for themselves! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]
                                        \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
                                        Stevie Nicks

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