• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

Event Announcements now available FREE to all registered users

We just reconfigured the Event Announcements forum to be available as a free service for all registered forum users. See the thread stuck at the top of that forum for more information.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

AHSA / USET END TALKS

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • AHSA / USET END TALKS

    AHSA has an announcement on their website:

    www.ahsa.org
  • Original Poster

    #2
    AHSA has an announcement on their website:

    www.ahsa.org

    Comment


    • #3
      .....that egos cannot be contained and the horse-owning paying public will have to fund the price of this argument.

      With attitudes like this I would imagine that we will continue to field such strong teams of experienced jumper riders to compete so successfully against the world's best (inject sarcasm here!).

      I DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRR.

      Comment


      • #4
        I read this as not good news..... Sounds like once again the spirit of cooperation was lost in the midst of infighting and egos. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

        Comment


        • #5
          Sad, but not really surprising. From what I saw of the USET people at the AHSA meeting, they were polarized and never going to accept a compromise that might deprive them of any degree of power (and, for some, high paying jobs).

          The USET has an announcement about the vote on their site, but they focus on what was apparently a subsidiary vote of the "equestrian atheletes" who are members of the USET Board of Trustees. The USET press announcement says that "Active Athletes from the Olympic disciplines voted 22 to 0 for the USET plan. In total, the USET plan was endorsed 22 to 2 by the athletes."

          It would be interesting to see which active athletes voted. (I recognize only about 15 or 16 of the names of Board members posted on the USET site as people who are active atheletes, but obviously there are names I don't know.)

          The USET is definately trying to give it the spin that the rest of us should just accept their plan because the "active atheletes" voted for it. I, however, continue to believe that our best hope for the future is in the hands of the AHSA and that the USET plan has serious practical deficiencies.
          "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

          Comment


          • #6
            All is not well with the assets of the USET. This article in today's New York Times tells their other dilemma, will they relocate to Wellington? or Ocala?

            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>January 24, 2001

            Market Place: Lucent Tries to Sell Golf Course

            By SIMON ROMERO

            If Lucent Technologies, as expected, announces a corporate revamping today that includes a
            write-down and the elimination of thousands of jobs, its investors and employees may also want to
            hear about the company's outlay of more than $40 million the last two years to create one of the
            world's most exclusive golf courses.

            Although the project was never announced, or clearly spelled out in Lucent's financial documents, since 1998 Lucent has backed the construction of the Hamilton Farm Golf Club, a rambling, 36-hole complex in the town of Peapack-Gladstone in the heart of the New Jersey fox-hunting country. The complex includes a helicopter-landing pad, a guest home of 20,000 square feet with 10 suites, a wine cellar and tasting room and a full-time concierge.

            Until recently, Lucent had planned for Hamilton Farm to sell memberships in the club to 18 large
            corporations for $1 million apiece, in addition to charging annual fees of several hundred thousand
            dollars a year. That plan never materialized, though several high-ranking Lucent executives did play on the course.

            The aim of the club under Richard A. McGinn, a former chief executive who was ousted by Lucent's
            board in October, was to create an exclusive meeting place for executives from a close circle of large
            companies.

            But now, with Lucent scrambling to cut costs, the company is trying to disentangle itself from the golf club. To sell the property, Lucent has offered to be the sole guarantor on a $45 million loan to three companies interested in buying it, according to documents of the financing proposal.

            The documents were provided to The New York Times by a person close to the golf course project,
            and their authenticity was confirmed by the company. Neither Mr. McGinn nor Henry B. Schacht, a previous chairman and chief executive who has returned to those jobs on an interim basis, could be reached for comment.

            Lucent's involvement in Hamilton Farm, embarked upon when its earnings and stock price were
            highflying, exemplifies the company's lofty ambitions when it became the world's largest maker of communications equipment after its spinoff from AT&T in 1996. The current attempt to quietly extract itself from the project underscores Lucent's reversal of fortunes in the last year, as it has repeatedly fallen short of earnings forecasts and its stock price has dropped 62 percent.

            "In the heady days of the late 1990's they may have thought this would have worked," said Finn M. W. Caspersen, a wealthy investor in Peapack-Gladstone, whose recent offer to buy the golf course from Lucent for about $25 million in cash was turned down. "They had what I considered to be a flawed business model," he added, referring to Hamilton Farm.

            Lucent, through its support of the Daylar Group, a Connecticut real estate development company,
            provided about $18 million in financing for the sprawling 5,000-acre Hamilton Farm in 1998. Lucent's total investment in the property after the subsequent construction of the golf course was more than $40 million, people close to Lucent said.

            While Lucent, based nearby in Murray Hill, N.J., has never detailed its involvement in the golf course in its financial documents, it has been closely involved in the management of Hamilton Farm.

            Tony Marano, Lucent's vice president for real estate, was required to sign any check of more than $5,000 related to the property's expenses, people close to the company said. And a telephone list of administrative contacts distributed to employees at the club's headquarters provided the contact information for Mr. Marano and his executive assistant, next to a statement reading: "These numbers are not to be given out."

            It was after the ouster of Mr. McGinn in October that Mr. Schacht, the interim chief executive, became aware of Lucent's involvement in the golf course, said Kathleen M. Fitzgerald, a company
            spokeswoman.

            Under Mr. Schacht, Lucent underwent an internal review of its operations and announced last month
            that it would restate financial results for the quarter ended in September, reducing revenue by $679 million after it became clear the company was too aggressive in recording sales.

            "Henry decided it was not the best use of our assets," Ms. Fitzgerald said. "We're confident a sales agreement would allow us to recoup our initial investment."

            The property's elite character dates to 1911, when James Cox Brady, a New York financier, acquired
            land next to the estate of Charles Pfizer, the pharmaceuticals magnate. Next to stables with Shetland ponies and Clydesdale horses, Brady built a 64-room Georgian brick mansion with 11 fireplaces and a chapel with stained-glass windows.

            The Beneficial Corporation, a financial institution whose chairman was Mr. Caspersen, eventually acquired the farm and allowed the United States Equestrian Team to train for the Olympic games on its grounds. After Lucent took over Hamilton Farm in 1998 from Household International, which had acquired Beneficial, Lucent allowed the equestrian team to continue training on part of the property.

            But Lucent's construction of two 18-hole golf courses on the property drew the ire of nearby residents who became concerned about the project's potential impact on the community.

            "The opening of this golf course frankly threatens our way of life," said David Troast, president of Essex Fox Hounds, a fox-hunting group in the area. "It's not only a threat to local fox hunting but to the entire cultural landscape."

            Mr. Troast's concern was echoed by David Peifer, executive director of the Upper Raritan Watershed
            Association, a local environmental preservation group. "The amount of water wasted on a golf course this size is astonishing," he said. "You would think that Lucent would have had more on its mind than golf privileges."

            Under Lucent's plan, the 18 corporate members were to designate 10 representatives each that could
            use the club, so that no more than 180 people could frequent the property at any time. Lucent was planning to keep at least one corporate membership for itself, in addition to maintaining some administrative control over the club.

            Lucent is seeking to transfer ownership of the Hamilton Farm Golf Club to a group that includes
            Townsend Capital, an investment company in Towson, Md.; the Buena Vista Hospitality Group, a
            golf-management company based in Tampa, Fla.; and Bill Howell Associates, an operator of boutique
            hotels. PNC Capital Markets of Philadelphia is arranging the financing proposal.


            According to people close to the companies involved, the golf complex's new owners would use a more conventional membership structure, with more members paying lower fees. Part of the deal would allow Lucent to remain a member of the club. Lucent expects to complete the transaction within two months, people close to the company said.


            Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
            http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

            Comment


            • #7
              OK, Snowbird, I posted this at the end of the other thread where you posted the very interesting article above, but we may as well continue it here, with this shorter thread.

              Snowbird or anyone else who knows, what is the story behind the Gladstone property and the USET? I'm in the dark here. I remember reading a bit about the furor a couple of years ago when Beneficial sold the land for the golf courses, but I thought there was some way it was all smoothed over so that the USET was guaranteed some kind of rights to use the land and actually bought part of it outright. (That all happened before these boards raised my consciousness!)

              The article says that Lucent let the USET continue to use the property. Does the USET own any of the Gladstone property, or lease it, or is it just some kind of guest? What's the real story, does anyone know?
              "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

              Comment


              • #8
                The land (100+acres) was given to Open Space - through either the Nature Conservancy or another group in that area, with the USET having the primary right to use it. Should the USET move, the group takes control. There can be NO MORE development on the property - which would preclude the addition of stands, rings or other buildings that could make that a premier facility.

                HOWEVER, according to my Uncle who spoke to the conservation group director last week, these plans are still not finalized, and they have been wondering about the delay. The article above speaks to that problem: if the place is back up for sale, the new owners may not want an "open space" albatross.

                The buildings, including the main barn, Nautical Hall and the original jumping ring - now dedicated to Dressage - are supposed to have been deeded to the Team, however, no one has actually gone to the County Hall of Record to see if that is official. I suspect it is still a lease, although, I may be wrong.
                co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                Comment


                • #9
                  [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

                  I am puzzeled on how a vote of 20/2 (active atheletes) can be considered a vote that represents the ENTIRE board of trustees of the USET.

                  There are 15 executives, 40 regular trustees, 16 Honorary Life Trustees, and 46 members of the National ADvisory Council. Of these, there are 21 members of the Executive Committee. I could not find a list of "Active Riders", though, there are certainly a few on the Board.

                  Regardless, 22 people is only 1/4 of the USET Board!
                  co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, I think we can safely say Lucent will be selling the property ASAP:

                    Lucent to cut 10,000 jobs
                    Telecom giant to take charge of up to $1.6 billion

                    REUTERS
                    NEW YORK, Jan. 24 ? Lucent Technologies Inc. Wednesday posted a first-quarter loss and said it would cut 10,000 jobs, or 10 percent of its work force, as part of a plan to cut $2 billion in expenses and recover from recent profit shortfalls and product development missteps.

                    etc.

                    Weatherford, as for the vote by the USET, I think they did have a full vote of the board. However, the USET chose to highlight the votes of the athletes in their press release to make it look like it's what "the equestrian athletes" want and reduce criticism that the USET move to take over NGB status is a decision by a few wealthy individuals who don't want to give up power.

                    You know, spin. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]
                    "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, ok first, let me zip up the flame suit.

                      OK--I know and know of "active equestrian athletes" in a variety of sports.

                      Although by and large they are wonderful coaches/trainers, brilliant riders, and wonderful horseman--well, lots of them couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag. And even the few that do have some concept of managmenet skills don't really have a clue what its like to be me or what my needs might be--not a criminal offense to be sure, but certianly something to keep in mind.

                      So you'll excuse me if I don't find the fact that "elite athletes" voted in favor of a certain management system terribly compelling. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A-U-D-I-T the USET. A thorough examination of the books, records, etc. would go a long way to answer some of the murky questions.


                        And after the audit, a report should be made available to any interested person... as most legitimate non-profits prefer that their supporters know the ins and outs of their business.

                        And because I am an "all occasion" curmudgeon, the AHSA might as well be audited as well..... and any of these other related groups who are raising money to promote equine related activities under this thin veneer of non-profit.
                        [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, Lucent did it, so now where will they go? Me thinks Wellington. Percentages being what they are, this is a place where the "athletes" are completing. What's so very sad about this whole situation, is possibly the lose of Gladstone. Many horsemen rose thru the ranks to participate there. Only hope that possibly the state of NJ would be consider a conservancy for this property or is it too late for that? Weatherford?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I consider myself a mildly intelligent person (no flames here [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]), it amazes me that I cannot understand head or tales of the USET / AHSA debate, and the voting process. And no, I am NOT from the sunny state of Florida!

                            How can so much bureaucracy be involved? How can life be so complicated? Even the recent election of the President of the United States of America was somewhat simpler to comprehend and at least resulted in a CONCLUSION. Although it may not be the conclusion that people favor (obviously 50% do not), it is still a conclusion and the country will progress.

                            The equestrian world however seems to perform concentric circles with no end in sight. For this I pay massive membership fees each year? Ha. I for one, am truly disgusted!!!

                            Why do we not simply have an FEI affliate that manages the team under the AHSA and while we're at it clean house at the AHSA too. Start with egos first. That should require an 18-wheeler.

                            I thought the AHSA was supposed to organize and PROTECT my four legged creatures against abuse and provide me with a fair playing field on which to compete across the country. I didn't realize they were supposed to be the Second Coming.

                            Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

                            Bad day. Thanks for letting me vent.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Revenue
                              Contributions $7,273,163
                              Government Grants $0
                              Program Services $749,257
                              Investments $746,118
                              Special Events $0
                              Sales $0
                              Other $43,924

                              Expenses
                              Program Services $4,869,224
                              Administration $536,930
                              Other $1,806,895
                              Total Expenditures $7,213,049

                              Total Revenue $8,812,462
                              NET GAIN/LOSS $1,599,413

                              Assets (read as three columns of data)
                              (col 1): Jan. 01, 1998 (col 2): Dec. 31, 1998 (col 3): Change (btw 1-01-98 and 12-31-98)

                              Cash & Equivalent
                              $999,693 $234,379 $-765,314
                              Accounts Receivable
                              $57,325 $142,034 $84,709
                              Pledges & Grants Receivable
                              $3,159,491 $4,808,812 $1,649,321
                              Receivables/Other
                              $0 $0 $0
                              Inventories for Sale or Use
                              $0 $0 $0
                              Investments/Securities
                              $0 $0 $0
                              Investments/Other
                              $5,046,679 $5,457,369 $410,690
                              Fixed Assets
                              $946,119 $975,322 $29,203
                              Other
                              $34,240 $69,017 $34,777
                              Total Assets
                              $10,243,547 $11,686,933 $1,443,386

                              Liabilities
                              Jan. 01, 1998 Dec. 31, 1998 Change
                              Accounts Payable
                              $290,648 $502,924 $212,276
                              Total Liabilities
                              $290,648 $502,924 $212,276

                              FUND BALANCE
                              $9,952,899 $11,184,009 $1,231,110

                              Sportponies Unlimited
                              Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
                              Shameless signature plugplugplug.
                              Sportponies Unlimited
                              Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The FEI already has North American represenation and last I checked that same person was an ex-AHSA President and former USET VP.

                                As for Hamilton Farm, Beneficial Finance deeded the USET 100 acres prior to their larger 513 acre sale. The former Brady stable complex, the core of the USET facility, had already been deeded in a 10 acre deal many years ealier by Beneficial. 120 acres of additional lands were annouced as having been placed into a conversation easment which allowed for USET equestrian use. That could be withdrawn, as discussed by another poster, with the Lucent development sale.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  The fin statements do not show the entire picture. (We spent a year in B-school learnign how to manipulate the darned things!)

                                  A cash flow analysis of the past few years, or better yet, donors and how much they donated. Then you will see what Armand Leone admitted to at teh AHSA meeting: the USET sets a budget, routinely overruns it and certain Trustees fill the gap.

                                  This also does not reflect the significant (!) increases in salaries for three members of the staff. I do not know any other smaller non-profits where there are at least three staff member who earn well into the six figures.
                                  co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Check your facts on those deeds.

                                    Or perhaps someone who lives near there can look it up. That was the spin, but, I do not believe the truth.

                                    For sure, there is NOT 10 acres surrounding the barn & arenas - maybe 2. Go look at it! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I really don't have the time to trot down to Gladstone so I have to trust a few things that I read .. see, "In the Counrty" The Chronicle of the Horse, January 30, 1998, article titled "Decision Looms on Future Use of Hamilton Farms".

                                      Perhaps you should call the Chronicle and let them know they've been hit with spin?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I do believe they are checking.
                                        co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X