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  • #81
    Thanks for starting the ball Jennifer. I have now added my two cents on the Issues and Answers forum (at http://www.ahsa.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000009.html for those who would like to join in)
    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”


    • #82
      Suddenly, after 30 years I am a member of the USET. I received in the mail a new membership card with the option to renew my membership by paying my dues. The amount would define the level of my membership.

      I have for as long as I have run horses shows sent in all my fees as a show manager. To this date it never included my being a member of the USET. OH! Yes! I take that back, I was offered the opportunity to vote as a member when they were having their proxy fight for control of the USET.

      It seems I am only valuable to them when they need an extra vote. Now, my daughter received the same a membership card. She has not been a member since her last junior year and that was about 15 years ago. She was one of the first Junior Members since she qualified for the very first Ride-off at Gladstone. Suddenly, she is also considered a member who just needs to renew her membership.

      I wonder how many if the 1300+ members they claim to have are equally in the same boat we are?
      http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


      • #83
        Snowbird, I think that's really just a marketing ploy--I don't think they count those numbers in their membership total.

        I get lots of junk mail like that. "You've already won..." "You're pre-approved..." "A free subscription is waiting for you..." It's just a gimmick.

        I got one too. Went straight in the recycling bin.


        • #84
          Hmmm. I wonder how much it costs the USET to send out all those endless solicitations every year?

          Given how focused Dr. Leone was on a very few "major individual donors" during the question and answer at the AHSA annual meeting, and the fact that he never answered my question about whether the USET was at all concerned that there might be some backlash or loss of support from the average members/horsepeople, I have to question whether what the USET spends on fundraising from the average members/horseperson is worth it. I really would like to know what percentage of donations to the USET comes from the average members/horsepeople versus the "major individual donors."

          I got my membership renewal solicitation, which really would have been a renewal. But there'll be no more money from me to the USET until things radically change there. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

          At least David O'Connor is a far better choice to be asking for money than Alison Firestone. That was one where the USET just didn't get it, on a lot of levels.

          Sorry. That last part was catty of me. I'm feeling rather eeeevvilll today. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
          "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry


          • #85
            re "I got my membership renewal solicitation, which really would have been a renewal. But there'll be no more money from me to the USET until things radically change there. "

            For all who received "renewals" (real or not) - do you take the enclosed envelope and explain why they will not be receiving any money from you at this time?
            Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

            The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”


            • #86
              Snowbird, they probably made you a member "Emeritus"..hoping to lure you into the fold. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] (you know that was not against you in the least Snowbird) Just had to throw that ole 2/5 cents in. Have received the same, the round filing cabinet now holds that momento.

              [This message was edited by wtywmn4 on Jan. 30, 2001 at 07:58 PM.]


              • #87
                I wonder from whom they got their mailing list?

                Sportponies Unlimited
                Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
                Shameless signature plugplugplug.
                Sportponies Unlimited
                Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.


                • #88
                  It doesn't really have to do with mailing lists, but the question reminded me of something else from the AHSA meeting. I asked what the overlap was between the membership of the AHSA and the USET. They did not have the exact information, though Jim Wolfe, I think it was, said they could derive it by comparing mailing lists. The USET and AHSA people did confirm, however, that certainly the very vast majority of USET members are AHSA members (though not vice versa, of course, given the huge number of AHSA members versus USET members).

                  I asked the question because I wanted to know if the two organizations really were somehow serving separate constituencies such that a merger would involve integrating two disparate groups of people or, as the USET people expressed concern about, would actually result in some dramatic or entirely unpredictable change in management. I had the disturbing feeling from their responses that the USET people had not really considered that factor before then.
                  "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry


                  • #89
                    I hadn't even thought about that Portia and you are so right. It is an important factor. It's not just the overlap of officials but the USET having been a part of AHSA for some 50 years is of course mostly AHSA Members.
                    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


                    • #90
                      Emmet and wtywm never answered my questions about why USET can't become a division of AHSA and now the subject of overlapping membership has yet again pointed to what, to me at least, is just logical.

                      How can organizations obtaining millions of dollars in donations base their actions and policies on what at least appear to be nothing more than personal agendas?

                      Didn't anyone look at least a little bit uncomfortable when Mr. Leone mentioned losing one or two big donors if USET didn't remain autonomous (sp?)? What does that MEAN about those donors' relationships with USET and about those relationships' impact on what we are at least "told" are the objectives of USET? Doesn't it imply that the donors themselves have a personal agenda? That they aren't just trying to field the best US teams possible (because why couldn't they do that with USET as a division of AHSA)?

                      And wouldn't you bet that those same ultra-important, big-dollar donors are also already long-time members of AHSA?

                      Sportponies Unlimited
                      Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
                      Shameless signature plugplugplug.
                      Sportponies Unlimited
                      Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.


                      • #91
                        SGray, it does no good to return your membership invitation. I've tried it and finally realized those letters come from and return to a marketing firm and no one at the USET ever sees them.

                        Personally I think "member" is a misnomer. Membership usually entitles you to something. The only real benefit I've ever received (before I wised up and stop contributing) was the very first Festival of Champions. That year your membership card got you free entrance. When it proved to be successful, they charged members and turned it into a fund raiser. I've also attend at least two WEGs where I learned that the USET had a hospitality tent for "members". However, it was located in the restricted VIP area and only "some members" were invited to use it.


                        • #92
                          Pwynn I will try to tell you my version [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] The USET focuses on the Olympic team to be. The funds for this type of endeavor are coming from the sponsors/ USET board themselves. I don't believe the AHSA has the type of funds to do this, nor should they. If we accept the NHJC as our breed representative, then why wouldn't the team have the USET as theirs? I thought the whole idea of having an organization within the AHSA umbrella was to allow each disicpline coverage. Which except for the team, we all have.

                          If you say they have it with the NJHC, no they don't. We are working within the infrastructure of the USA and it's rules. They're working within a european one, or country by country. If we ran our Jumpers by the FEI rules, which are quite different, then yes, there would be no need to have a seperate org. But the rules vary, depending on what classes qualify riders/horses.

                          Sorry this is so lengthy. As I said, am not taking sides. I feel there are issues which need to be addressed.


                          • #93
                            I checked out the discussion at the Ultimate Dressage board, thanks for the link. I registered and tried to post some questions for Mr. Wofford, but the board said my IP number is banned from their forums. I'm sure it's a technical glitch since I've never posted anything there before - and I don't think I would have done anything to get myself banned even if I had! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                            Could you do me a favor and post these questions for Mr. Wofford over there on my behalf? He was appointed to the SPI by the AHSA, but hopefully he can address some of the questions about the USET plan too. Thanks! (You can use my name, of course, and if you don't want to do it, I understand).

                            1. How does the USET plan to overcome the delegation prohibition in the TS Amateur Sports Act and the USOC bylaws?

                            As I understand the USET proposal, it would still leave licensing officials, equine drug testing, date allocation, etc., to the AHSA. I know Dr. Leone says this will not violate the delegation prohibition, but I have difficulty seeing how that is any different than the AHSA delegating fund raising and team organization to the USET, which the USOC has said is improper.

                            2. How does the USET plan deal with governance of competitions that mix both FEI and non-FEI disciplines and "protected competitions" with non-protected competitions?

                            For example, how would judges and licensed officials be qualified and selected for hunter/jumper shows with one or more $25,000+ GP's, or dressage shows with everything from training level to GP and freestyle tests that could serve as qualifiers for international competition, or Western shows that have big money reining classes. Who would conduct the equine drug testing? Who would allocate the dates?

                            3. Under the USET plan, what happens in the event of a dispute over sanctions to a rider or driver who may be qualified for international competition but commits the sanctionable conduct in connection with a non-FEI discipline or competition?

                            For example, what if an international rider is also the trainer of a first year green hunter who turns up positive in a drug test at a show. If the AHSA, after its hearing process, sets that rider/trainer down for a year from AHSA-sanctioned competition, and the USET disagrees with that sanction would the AHSA have to allow that rider/trainer to compete and train horses in non-protected compeitions? That is, if the rider can't take his/her horse in the open jumper classes to warm up for the GP, wouldn't that affect the ability of that rider to qualify to compete internationally such that there would be a jurisdictional clash between what the USET proposes as itself as the international governing body and the AHSA as the national governing body?

                            "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry


                            • #94
                              It is done - will happily add any more if necessary.
                              Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

                              The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”


                              • #95
                                Portia your questions, as always are excellent. These are the types of issues that need to be addressed. Whether we hear answers, well....

                                For the longest time, no one has asked questions of the USET with the knowledge that many of you have. It bothers me that the numbers discussing them on the BB's has dwindled. Does this mean a lack of interest or a lack of concern? Let's hope not, this is what has gotten us to this point to begin with.


                                • #96
                                  see http://www.ahsa.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000009.html
                                  Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

                                  The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”


                                  • #97
                                    SGray, thanks for the heads-up on the AHSA I&A reply. Hopefully they will come up with something.

                                    Wtywmn, thanks for your kind words, as always. I think people do care, but it is a complex and confusing situation. It's just my warped legal mind that makes it interesting for me. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                                    I was talking with a friend today about how it is that so few of the active athletes have spoken out on this issue. My friend suggested something that made so much sense it created one of those "DUH!" moments where I felt like an idiot for not having thought of it myself.

                                    My friend suggested that perhaps at least some of the active athletes who are currently dependent upon the USET to fund their international activities and select them for teams may be concerned that if they were to speak out in favor of the AHSA proposal, or even if they fail to actively push the USET proposal, the USET might retaliate with cuts in funding and support. They don't want to make enemies of the people who control the money, and who, if the USET wins the NGB fight, will entirely control all funding and selection of our international teams.

                                    That's not to say, of course, that many of the active international athletes don't sincerely support the USET proposal and want the USET to be the NGB. They may well do. And it may be outrageous to suggest that the people running the USET would ever engage in any form of retaliatory action. I don't know, though I have my opinion about it.

                                    But the fear factor may be a reason why, with the exception of David O'Connor, few of the active athletes have stepped up to support what seems to be an inclusive and moderate proposal by the AHSA. (And can you imagine what would happen if the USET tried to retaliate against our only gold medalist in however many years?)

                                    "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry


                                    • #98
                                      That is what keeps everyone silent. Even with our little attempt there is genuine fear that to oppose the powers that be can cost them their license as an Official, their show dates as managers etc. etc.

                                      So I'm certain even though it has not been said, or even anyone has been specific there certainly would be a difference in the treatment of these people who agree than with those who disagree. That is afterall humna nature at the least.

                                      I will say at this point I cannot imagine that the USOC looking factually at both organizations would find any reason to change the NGB. Especially, since the AHSA is more than willing to do whatever is necessary to comply and it would be largely impossible for the USET to comply and all their general members are as you so wisely pointed already members of the AHSA.
                                      http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org


                                      • #99
                                        I know retaliation exsists. To give specifics would just be heresay here because it didn't happen to me, but to an accquaintance. She dared to disagree with a "prevailing" opinion and it cost her dearly within the horse industry.

                                        It too bad, but you can understand many people's reluctance.
                                        \"just remember this my girl, when you look up in the sky, you can see the stars but still not see the light.\" -The Eagles (song by J. Tempchin/R. Stradlund)


                                        • the USET has always seemed to have their "pets" and so I would think that the opposite would be very likely
                                          Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

                                          The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”