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the "hunters lay" "duck" "sprawl yourself on it's neck" 2-point

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  • Original Poster

    #41
    Originally posted by dags View Post
    Tidy, you're hopeless. The horse is totally balanced to the outside. You aren't leaning in NEAR enough to get him to drop that inside knee and get a head start on the left turn. Haven't you ever seen a dirtbike race?? Lean and turn baby, lean and turn . . .
    LOL at "lean and turn"

    Best words i've ever overheard a trainer say to their rider before entering their jumper course "lean and rip him around to 8, then floor it and huge release to 9".
    "I am going to teach you about men. distances are like men. Never grab the first one you see; it's never the best one, and more will come along."-George Morris

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    • #42
      Originally posted by tidy rabbit View Post
      I don't particularly care for the feeling of the horse's withers between my boobs. LOL
      Oh, that's good stuff!

      Comment


      • #43
        Oh lord... I remember hours and hours of lessons in 2 point with no reins. And if I jumped ahead, which was a very bad habit I had, then I had to do an entire lesson in 2 point with no hands.

        Good position to me = balancing in your lower leg, heels down, shoulders up, back straight, butt lightly off your saddle. If you can't hold it with no hands and either tip forward or back, you're either jumping ahead or behind the motion. And I became a lawn dart often enough to know that this is the only position that's both effective and secure.
        Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
        Witherun Farm
        http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/

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        • #44
          Originally posted by findeight View Post
          That is, like, a 16 point release or something.

          Looks like you got every knuckle turned under and sort of rolled into the neck...looks good with the wing...er...elbows pointing down and out like that. I simply cannot get my arms arranged that way
          You need to do some yoga for equestrians, there's the 16 point lotus position that will really help you with this form.
          Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

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          • #45
            Originally posted by tidy rabbit View Post
            This picture is the poster child for that 6 point position being taught.

            http://pets.webshots.com/photo/26750...48495570AGMqKr



            I was not doing it "right" until I was like this. Where's the barf Icon?

            Obviously if it wasn't working for you, you shouldn't have been doing it. If your trainer was insisting on it, then good for you to move.

            But the photo you posted shows a horse jumping a decent sized jump with his knees high, ears forward and giving a really pretty effort. Her position may not win in the EQ, but she's getting a beautiful jump out of her horse...so who cares? If it didn't work for you, fine...move on...but I don't think we need to decry the downfall of riding/horsemanship over this.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by tidy rabbit View Post
              I don't particularly care for the feeling of the horse's withers between my boobs. LOL
              See, I have no boobs so maybe I should just give up riding now! Is that what I've been doing wrong?

              I actually got yelled at last night for throwing myself at my horse. Once I realized I was a little light went off. Of course I think that was the light that said "hey dumby, stop riding me like I'm a gran prix horse, it's only 3'!" And it was amazing how much better he was when I held myself up over the jump! He actually tried to meet me instead of dropping out his forehand to get away from me!

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              • #47
                Originally posted by twobays View Post
                Obviously if it wasn't working for you, you shouldn't have been doing it. If your trainer was insisting on it, then good for you to move.

                But the photo you posted shows a horse jumping a decent sized jump with his knees high, ears forward and giving a really pretty effort. Her position may not win in the EQ, but she's getting a beautiful jump out of her horse...so who cares? If it didn't work for you, fine...move on...but I don't think we need to decry the downfall of riding/horsemanship over this.

                wait a minute.... that's me on my horse in a clinic so I guess I can say I didn't care for being instructed into that position.
                Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                Comment


                • #48
                  this thead cracks me up

                  my horse jumps extremely round and at the same time cracks her knees up, so i know the feeling of wanting to get into twopoint asap and do a huge release to make sure i dont snag her in the mouth and hit her back, and i did that for a little while then we fixed it, well almost i still do it occasionally but not near as bad, and its usually when im going to a really big fence.. i get excited

                  moral of the story is that it is not functional to do this nor does it look good, you want to show your horse off and you cant do that if you distracting the judge with your prayingmatis style twopoint!

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by SLSDelmar View Post
                    I have a feeling people won't want to find their photos here so try to find photos where a riders face isn't front and center!
                    I have no problem posting pictures of me ducking, jumping ahead or what have you...

                    Laying on the neck (although not jumping ahead too much

                    Jumping ahead, which I do when I'm nervous.


                    Good eq, although a bit defensive...horse stopped the jump before.

                    another fairly decent eq

                    I've ridden hunters all my life but dabble in other things. I would give me right eye to be able to ride soft and relaxed like the pros...laying on a horse's neck or not. I would prefer not, but if my horse would jump out of his skin if I did, I'd probably take a nap up there. Unfortunately, most ammies can't ride like the pros, so they just end up laying there, getting in the way. Pros shouldn't be teaching ammies to lay on a horse's neck...they should be teaching them solid foundation which can only be tweaked with once the rider is to the level that they can pick and choose where/how they want their body to manipulate the form of their horse.
                    Last edited by RugBug; Feb. 6, 2009, 03:48 PM.
                    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      I've found with my green bean the joy of the automatic release over bigger fences than a cross rail. He loves to jump high, round and powerful and the ONLY way I can keep up with him is to do an automatic release.

                      I'm a big fan of doing what makes your horse look right and is comfortable for them, but sometimes people just teach it because it's the "in" thing to do.

                      Anyone who has seen my wardrobe knows I'm not a fan of trends.....

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by tidy rabbit View Post
                        wait a minute.... that's me on my horse in a clinic so I guess I can say I didn't care for being instructed into that position.
                        You have a beautiful horse!

                        Like I said, since it didn't work for you, you made the right choice by moving...but I've noticed a lot of people on COTH describing the kind of position you had in the photo as the downfall of proper riding and horsemanship. My point was just that different positions work for different people and if you're getting the best out of your horse, everything else is just gravy.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by twobays View Post
                          You have a beautiful horse!

                          Like I said, since it didn't work for you, you made the right choice by moving...but I've noticed a lot of people on COTH describing the kind of position you had in the photo as the downfall of proper riding and horsemanship. My point was just that different positions work for different people and if you're getting the best out of your horse, everything else is just gravy.
                          Oh, I understand you now.

                          The only position that I think works really well is the automatic release and a more open hip angle. I'm doing my darnedest to be more consistent with that. Hopefully this year will be the year.....

                          -and thanks for the compliment on my boy he's a good one!
                          Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by SLSDelmar View Post
                            My point- eq is always evolving, every judge likes something different, hopefully all something similar. As far as I am concerned there has never been a meeting held where a group of Eq God's sat down and created 'musts'. You strive to impress the judge, therefore you study what they like. Not what is "right". Because at the end of the day, what is right? Besides "form following function". I have another feeling that if I asked each person here what "right" would be in a photo each would have it's differences, nobody rides the same, so there are many forms of "correct" no form of "right".
                            I strongly disagree with this. You strive to ride your best (which means good equitation...yes, the stuff that the ODGs came up with) and if the judge likes it GREAT. If not, too bad. What you wrote is exactly what's wrong in the show ring today. If it wins, it must be good, right?

                            HSE wasn't just made up on a whim. It was/is the most effective and efficient way to ride a horse over fences (course, my understanding of HSE means that it is a sibling to "balance seat" or whatever the eventers like to call what they are doing these days, so....). It is the form that best allows for the function. The bastardization of it in the current show ring is just people taking things too far, to the extreme, Getting lazy.
                            Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                            Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

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                            • #54
                              Because for a lot of people (and trainers who make a living doing this) the bottom line is winning ribbons. Who cares if it's "correct", does it win ribbons? Earn points? Get more clients? Then they go for it.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by tidy rabbit View Post
                                Oh, I understand you now.

                                The only position that I think works really well is the automatic release and a more open hip angle. I'm doing my darnedest to be more consistent with that. Hopefully this year will be the year.....

                                -and thanks for the compliment on my boy he's a good one!
                                My boy likes to be ridden with a very light seat and a generous release...its just what works for him. I'm not a ducker, but I don't really care to sit deep on him and maintain a strong contact. I wouldn't want someone to blast me as lazy/a crap rider because I choose to ride him the way that he goes best.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  [QUOTE=findeight;3863063][quote=FAW;3862983]People see the big jumpers in the Olympics do it and think that is the correct position over fences..... NOT.

                                  Where did you see the preying mantis release in the Olympics? All sorts of weird things getting over those fences but...not throwing body ahead of the horse and laying in it over the top with elbows out, puppy dog hands perched atop the crest, shoulder ahead of knee all the way down-and that would be ALL the way to the ground at that height.

                                  With a (very) few in the Hunters it is individual body build and just the way they ride-it is effective for them, they did learn the proper basics and have the proper foundation so you can't really knock it.

                                  It takes alot of work to get the strong position one should have to jump-no time for that anymore and too few trainers willing to say NO, not until you get an independent seat and hands with a strong base of support. Very unpopular.
                                  But the rest? Lazy as* kids imitating what they think is cool, adults that SBJ, poor basics, no foundation, BAAAAAD TRAINERS combined with students who think trainer is their "friend" and do not want to look at what the problem really is.

                                  I, unfortunately, have heard some wannbe JAWS yelling to lay up the neck and jump ahead over teeny, tiny fences-can't do that higher or they turn into lawn darts.

                                  But you need alot of work on basics to hold a prper position-independent hand and seat, strong lower leg with weight in heels. Unpopular to hear anyboidy say NO jumping, not ready yet or NO showing when you have not practiced.

                                  Everybody I work with says "You fell off because you were on the neck", "The horse stopped because he cannot hold your weight on his neck like that" or simply "Stop laying on the neck/jumping ahead/ducking".

                                  I reserve judgement with tiny 6 year olds on Small Ponies who blow off in a gust of wind because they don't weigh anything. They do whatever to stay on.
                                  Oh my gosh! I thought I was the only one who calls them puppy dog hands! Haha.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    this is normally not taught, but kids watch other people who ride like this and it never gets corrected.
                                    Last edited by wyldhorseb; Feb. 6, 2009, 04:46 PM.
                                    Sarah A. Ward

                                    Washington and Lee University Riding

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by twobays View Post
                                      But the photo you posted shows a horse jumping a decent sized jump with his knees high, ears forward and giving a really pretty effort. Her position may not win in the EQ, but she's getting a beautiful jump out of her horse...so who cares? If it didn't work for you, fine...move on...but I don't think we need to decry the downfall of riding/horsemanship over this.
                                      No one is decrying the fall of horsemanship. The decry of correct and effective riding? yes. Whether or not the horse is being judged and not the rider should be irrelevant if the RIDER cares about being correct/effective in any ring o/f. Spewing excuses why poor form is okay is precisely why many people in the horse world don't take hunter riders seriously. Correct and effective form o/f should be of such that it works in the hunters,jumpers,eq, eventing or out hunting. It's not rocket science, really.

                                      Not to mention form o/f in the hunter ring should be NO DIFFERENT than correct and effective form in the Hunt field. Afterall, isn't show hunters supposed to be based on what is ideal in the huntfield?
                                      Try going out 1st flight for 3 hours while jumping 3ft solid fences( using the laying on the neck form) and let us know how that goes

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Oh my...^ that photo is a gem.
                                        Proud Member of the "Tidy Rabbit Tinfoil Hat Wearers" clique and the "I'm in my 30's and Hope to be a Good Rider Someday" clique

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          My trainer rides my a$$ if I get lazy and put any weight on his neck. She makes me ride from my seat, sit and drive and let him lift me up without much movement on my part. I am only jumping him over 2ft to 2'6 but that doesn't take a big effort for either of us and if I look like I'm jumping 5' she makes me suffer
                                          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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