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How Much for a Lease on a Small?

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  • How Much for a Lease on a Small?

    We've been looking for a show lease on a small and I was curious if the lease price we've encountered is the norm?

    We're not necessarily looking for the AA small pony winner as our circuit (in Ontario) is less competitive but we haven't been able to find anything under $25,000 and these weren't super, super fancy.

    We did look at one that was originally priced at $15,000 only to get there and have the lease increased to $25,000 - very annoying since we flew down to see it.

    Maybe I'm just having price tag shock since our industry is a bit behind - is $25, 000 a normal lease to pay for a nice small pony with a show record? I suspect it is as we haven't been able to find anything for less - just seems "up there".

    Thoughts?
    \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

  • #2
    You have a pm

    J
    [URL="http://rygarhorsetransport.com"]http://rygarhorsetransport.com[/URL

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    • #3
      What! $25K? Lemme be frank as a hotdog, Czar: You could BUY my small for only $5K more and he's been champ or res in 7 out of 8 shows. I'm super-duper curious what you want to do with the pony that you'd spend that much in this economy. Meaning, respectfully, that I'm sure there are ponies well worth leasing for that much, but what do they DO--in your opinion--that would make them worth spending that?
      Sportponies Unlimited
      Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

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      • #4
        I think for that you should be able to get a top quality AA pony. Maybe not always the winner but one that would do well in good company.

        I've also sent you a pm

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        • #5
          For that, that Pony better be in the ribbons more often then not at the big shows. Not to mention just about push button and already qualified for Pony Finals, if just a cut below the top level.

          When you say "show lease" are you talking just for a circuit or a year? For a year lease, thinking you can turn something up that is well broke, pins in average company for 10-15k. If you want it to model and hack it's going to go up, go up for AA quality over fences as well.

          Smalls lease for more then they sell for as the kids grow out so fast. They actually can lease for ALOT more. As in jaw dropping alot more, kind of a niche market for those that own these.

          But, you could do a little better then that if you are not aiming for Devon, PF and Indoors.

          Where are you looking? I think with some networking you can turn up something decent and there is really no need to spend up so much unless you are aiming for the top.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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          • #6
            25k lease

            My daughter is currently riding a small that we leased(with an option to purchase) for 25k/ year. We have an option to purchase at the end of the lease with our lease money going towards a predetermined purchase price. We've been very satisfied with our investment, almost always in the ribbons. My daughter came from short stirrup to the regular division.

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            • #7
              I am thinking that the 25k price is for a pony that has "been there, done it". I hear of much much higher lease prices for the "winner" ponies.
              Sandy
              www.sugarbrook.com
              hunter/jumper ponies

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              • #8
                Lease is usually 1/3 of the purchase price.

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                • #9
                  My trainer once said 'for that price, the pony better be doing my laundry!' :-)
                  ~ Citizens for a Kinder, Gentler COTH...our mantra: Be nice. ~

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by llsc View Post
                    Lease is usually 1/3 of the purchase price.
                    Many top show Smalls are simply not for sale and have no real purchase price so that common axiom does not apply. That is why a lease fee varies so much...especially if it is for a show circuit or partial year as many of these are.

                    But, back to OP, I don't think she is looking on quite that level and 15k or so ought to get her something decent IF she looks and asks around.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                    • #11
                      I would think in this market/economy, you should be able to BUY something for that kind of money--if you dont have to win ALL the time.
                      Windswept Stables-Specializing in Ponies
                      Sales, Breaking,Training,Showing, Stud Service

                      Home of 2008 Sire of Year Reserve Champion
                      Pony Hunter Breeding - Empires Power

                      www.EmpiresPower.com

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sugarbrook
                        I am thinking that the 25k price is for a pony that has "been there, done it". I hear of much much higher lease prices for the "winner" ponies.

                        Agreed.
                        Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist

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                        • #13
                          I agree....I think 25K for an A show winner is low. For something that will get your kid around safely and pin much of the time, 25K is reasonable. Smalls are hard..larges are hard...mediums are easier to find. I don't know Canada but for 25k around here, you are not going to get your circuit winner or even something that will pull champion at the better shows.
                          Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

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                          • #14
                            $25K for a lease of a small pony

                            I'm off to buy me a 12.2hh pony and swap from eventing to hunters!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              $20K-$25K is a reasonable price for a lease for a small pony who has been promoted. Alot of people don't understand how much it takes to get a small at that level. You need a great trainer and a small pony jock to get that pony at a point where other tiny kids can get on it and ride it. I'm sure you can scrounge up a pony for less than that, but you might have maintenance issues or it be out of work, therefore needing to take more time/training/meds and money pony in order to get that pony where you need it to be. For a lower/no maintenance, promoted, still campaigning small pony that price is reasonable even for this economy.

                              Do you think there might have been a misunderstanding when communicating the price? Did you state your budget in Canadian or American dollars?
                              There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. ~Winston Churchill

                              No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill

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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Thanks for the replies everyone.

                                I thought it was pretty standard, if not on the low end, for a winning pony to be at $25K but we're not looking for the winner.

                                Our A circuit is not nearly as competitive as the American circuit and we don't even have an AA circuit. A pony that is placing moderately well on the American A circuit would most likely clean up up here.

                                That being said, our people DO want to place so we can't scrounge up just anything - they don't want to pay more than $15K CDN (total) and I just don't know if that's doable.
                                \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Silk View Post
                                  I agree....I think 25K for an A show winner is low. For something that will get your kid around safely and pin much of the time, 25K is reasonable. Smalls are hard..larges are hard...mediums are easier to find. I don't know Canada but for 25k around here, you are not going to get your circuit winner or even something that will pull champion at the better shows.
                                  I am with Silk, you have to consider the safety and ability aspect in a small....something that is so very important as well. I hope you are able to find something for your clients....of course the economy is going to dictate a lot and may be in your benefit in the coming months...a lot of horses are not moving right now...as easily as before....

                                  I think the horse show world should get a part of the stimulus package!
                                  "All life is precious"
                                  Sophie Scholl

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by TweedADeedle View Post
                                    $20K-$25K is a reasonable price for a lease for a small pony who has been promoted. Alot of people don't understand how much it takes to get a small at that level. You need a great trainer and a small pony jock to get that pony at a point where other tiny kids can get on it and ride it. I'm sure you can scrounge up a pony for less than that, but you might have maintenance issues or it be out of work, therefore needing to take more time/training/meds and money pony in order to get that pony where you need it to be. For a lower/no maintenance, promoted, still campaigning small pony that price is reasonable even for this economy.
                                    Say, Tweed, what do you mean by "promoted"?

                                    I'm missing something here, and I'd really like the education. I don't mean to hijack, but maybe my question will help the OP? I don't get what you, Tweedle (and others) mean by "how much it takes," for example. I've never done a small before, so my experience hardly counts for anything but one possibility, but given that, I've "found" that if the pony is a natural (autoswap, quiet, generous, etc.), it seems to take just the right rider--or not even that as my guy has had five different ones. Again, I'm not saying stuff to push him, honestly. I'm describing to gain understanding, OK? Oh, heck, I'm not even sure what I even MEAN by "it"!

                                    I guess the impression I had is that a good small MAY be "born not made"? Is that not the case? And how much IS it necessary to "promote" vs. just finding out if kid and pony suit each other's skill and mileage levels? I guestimated, too, that smalls were kinda like dressage horses--either they know it, can do it and can be ridden by rider x, or they don't/can't/wont.

                                    Can we get into this a bit more, please? I'd sure appreciate it!
                                    Sportponies Unlimited
                                    Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

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                                    • #19
                                      I'm not TweedADeedle but I think I know what she's getting at when she says "promoted" (I would have used the word "campaigned")... getting the pony out and about, ribboning in the classes that matter, and seen-- in other words, getting it the reputation.

                                      You might have the easiest small in the world, but if it's not out at shows proving it can hold it own against the right company-- it's going to get overlooked when compared to a pony with the record. Not only to demonstrate its quality and ability to do the job-- but to get it known as a leasable commodity.

                                      Even a lovely pony needs a rider who can get the job done, and if your lovely easy small doesn't get the right jock up-- mistakes will be made and the ribbons will suffer for it. If you're trying to make up a pony as a leasable commodity, you want it showing in the right classes with a jock that is going to get it results. The kind of jock who not only gets the job done but does it in such a way that the less skilled potential lessee can get on the pony and try it and also get the good results. There's a reason the same "name" smalls get passed around and around-- they have the quality, the resume, and they've proven they have the chops with different riders. They are by NO MEANS the only ponies with the quality, but when you're looking-- if you can afford it, you're going to gravitate to the known quanities.

                                      This is especially true with smalls because they're, well, small. You might not HAVE the strong pony jock in your barn who can get on and give the kind of schooling a green pony needs. If you've got a less experienced kid and no good pony jock to tune up, you WANT the known pony-- the one that's packed several kids before. The one who doesn't need the tuning any more. Could you get an unknown pony and make it suit-- sure, but you'd have to potentially find a jock to do it and sometimes that's a less satisfactory option. I think this is also true for horses but it's slightly less of a concen because they're not too small for the trainer to hop on and work. And, by the time the kid is on to horses, her skill set is better and she can do more for herself in terms of getting the mount in the right condition for the ring.

                                      And the other element is making it known the pony is for lease. You might have the most glorious pony. You might take it to shows and clean up. If it's name isn't "out there" as one of these perma-lease ponies, it's not going to be perceived that way. There's an understanding about certain ponies that they come available and that they can be had. If they're not packaged that way, potential lessee/trainers might overlook them.
                                      ~Veronica
                                      "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                      http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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                                      • #20
                                        That certainly makes sense, Veronica. When you say, though: "If you're trying to make up a pony as a leasable commodity, you want it showing in the right classes with a jock that is going to get it results..." does that mean it might be different for a sale vs. a "leasable commodity"?

                                        Also, someone argued/described to me an issue of having a pony jock-type do all the riding because of the way a jock can make a tough ride look easy. I was told having a pony do well in, say, short stirrup as well as in the greens, for example, would illustrate the pony's versatility/generoustity/whateveryawannacallit. Do you think it's better to always use a "jock" if you are serious about making the pony up? (I've actually thought that myself with respect to larges and horses--better they always get a great trip, both for their reps but also for their minds.)
                                        Sportponies Unlimited
                                        Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

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