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Changes to Penn. Nat. Horse Show

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  • Tiffani B
    replied
    The WC has MUCH steeper competition. I don't think a show such as this, no matter how nice it would be to see numbers increase, deserves the same recognition.

    Maybe instead, make the rating system (A, B or C) more friendly towards these types of shows. Currently it's based on the number of classes offered in specific divisions along with prize money. Maybe for a multi-disclipinary show, alter the requirements to get an A designation or something. That might draw more exhibitors, since a lot of people like to show at A rated shows.

    Leave a comment:


  • War Admiral
    replied
    Well, being me, I'm actually cooking up a notion... of suggesting to ASHA that certain big, multidisciplinary shows like Devon and the Royal be designated "Classic" shows or something like that for ASHA points purposes, and people would get the SAME points for winning at those that they do for winning at the World Championships.

    I'm thinking THAT'd get 'em in the doors. And the beauty is that it doesn't cost the show managements or the organization anything....

    Anyone care to poke holes in this?

    Leave a comment:


  • JRG
    replied
    I can understand the declining entries. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that although great horses, the ASB and what they stand for seem to be a lost art at least here in PA as well as many other area's? I often wondered, when I did see enties where the people that were showing were from. I have have to admit I know of 1 person in my area that used to be really big into ASB but hasn't done anything with them for at least 10 years...and hers are wonderfully well bred. Thoughts?

    I second what War Amiral had mentioned about points. I am not a H/J rider, and like the ASB group, I could care less about the USEF stuff. I am more focused on the USDF. I see a parallel there.

    Leave a comment:


  • JumpRoo
    replied
    It is sad that tradition is changing just for possibly a finacial aspect. What are they replacing these classes with, other than the Low Juniors? I know they have a national 3'3 A/O Division but is that going in seperately from the 3'6 A/Os? and one division will not fill in the gap. They should suggest a few classes still remain available and move them around to make them when the most people will be there for exhibitions and such, they are so cool and exciting to watch!

    Leave a comment:


  • Wedonit
    replied
    I grew up in Harrisburg and got "bronchitis" or "strep throat" every year for the week of Penn National.

    I respect all disciplines of the sport, but I will not miss this aspect of the show. From my point of view (and I am 37 -- started skipping school at 9) there have never been robust entries in these divisions. Why offer it if no one's there? In the rated divisions, for which the show is invitational, it's a view of among the best in the country and hotly contested. For these divisions, it was always 3 or 4 -- maybe 5 tops in a class as long as I can remember. Frankly I'm surprised it lasted this long.

    Leave a comment:


  • ccoronios
    replied
    Ditto Wings & caffeinated -

    I took SS lessons to show my Ap in that division.

    I think each discipline has something to teach the others.

    Tiffani's point is further illustrated by Quarter Horse Congress, the largest show in the world. It developed (I may not be 100% on details here, but the gist is there) when the state regional association was about to go under - their annual show was dying. A couple of parents (NOT horse-folks, but parents of kids who loved to show their QHs) decided to do something about it. They took over (business background) and turned the thing around to be, as I said, the largest show in the world - AND the longest, running MOST of the month of October. I know in the past there have been upwards of 4000 horses competing. Simply AMAZING. Non-competing (and I include family with competitors) spectators? I don't know. I think Walnut Hill has the handle on that.

    I certainly have no answers. I just think it's sad - and bad for the industry - for the disciplines to drift further and further apart. There are those who will make use (to the disadvantage of ALL in the industry) of that separation.

    C

    Leave a comment:


  • Tiffani B
    replied
    Originally posted by Addison View Post
    I for one will miss seeing Carson Kressley show his gorgeous horses.
    I'm fortunate enough to own one of his former horses.

    In regards to the show dropping the ASB classes - I am not from the area so I have no vested interest in the show, or the ability to bring a horse, but it's very disappointing to me. The disappointment is twofold - first, that the ASB exhibitors aren't going, and second, that show management isn't making it more attractive for them.

    We had several shows in my area over the years that faced declining attendance. With a change in management, and their subsequent alterations to the show (classes offered, scheduling, judges, social activities, etc) the shows began to grow again, and now are some of the most popular in the area.

    Devon and Penn could see the same resurgence in popularity IF the management put in the effort to make the shows more attractive to ASB exhibitors, and IF the exhibitors were interested. But if there are other shows the same weekend that are cheaper, closer, better attended, have a more valuable point structure and are more fun, you can bet that's where the horses will be.

    My favorite shows to attend are the multi-breed shows. Unfortunately, the ones that incorporate ASB classes (much less Saddle Seat at all!) are becoming harder to find.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hunter Princess
    replied
    I've been going to PNHS since I was in HS, which has been about 6 years now, and I always loved seeing the NSH's, saddlebreds, fine harness, and it was such a difference from the normal hunters that were on all mornings. I loved seeing all the horses flying into the ring, the call of 'rack on' and just the grace of these horses.

    I'll be writing a letter, definitely. My grandfather was a Zembo Shrine usher there back in the 90's and 2000-2003, and he always loved seeing those horses and the excitement and enthusiasm that they brought to the ring.

    Leave a comment:


  • caffeinated
    replied
    I've never shown or competed in those types of classes. I like saddlebreds from way back, and maybe took a few saddleseat lessons, but mostly my connection with them is that my grandfather worked with them.

    I will miss the classes for the same reason as Wings. I just LIKE to watch, and love the diversity. I've gone to Harrisburg for years as a spectator for GP night, and always gone early so I could see more of the non h/j classes.

    I understand economics and that sometimes things just have to go, but it still makes me really sad. I'll still go, of course, even though it is an hours-long drive for me (to think, I'd rather make that trek than take the quick train ride to WIHS, largely because of the ASBs, hackneys, and draft horses), because I like the atmosphere and venue. But really, those classes are the biggest reason I even started going to PNHS- it's not exactly convenient for me, heh.

    Leave a comment:


  • Addison
    replied
    I spend a lot of time at the Penn National every year and always attend the Grand Prix on the last night. I usually bring along at least a couple of non horse people to the grand prix and they always appreciate the saddlebreds that also show that night.

    The classes are fairly easy to understand even for a novice-you've either got it, or you don't!

    I for one will miss seeing Carson Kressley show his gorgeous horses.

    Leave a comment:


  • TankMonte
    replied
    This is so sad. It truly is a loss, all the way around.

    Leave a comment:


  • twobays
    replied
    Originally posted by spina View Post
    Voice of dissent here. I think it's hard to get a lot people interested in watching another flat class - shaky tails or no. As an occasional novelty, maybe, (as in I'd walk over to the ring to watch if I had to be there for another reason or another ring - or, didn't have anything else to look at while eating my lunch).
    It seems that many of the posters who will miss these classes are those that used to ride in them, or at least in that discipline - which (I can't help but wonder) if it's not even interesting enough to you to stick with it, I'm sure you can understand how it wouldn't be a big draw for a general audience.
    I see what you're saying, but to the general public, I'm not sure if a bunch of hunter o/f classes are that much more exciting...

    Leave a comment:


  • Everythingbutwings
    replied
    Originally posted by Molly99 View Post
    Out of curiosity, those that are upset to see the them go, have supported the horse show in any of the following: as an exhibitor in those classes, as a paying spectator or by sponsoring classes.

    PNHS is a benefit show. It is hard to justify keeping classes that lose money instead of making money for the benefactor.

    The entries have declined in that breed divisions, as well as the support as noted above.

    While you could cut the classes that don't fill, but the ASB folks won't come if all the divisions they want to show in are not offered.

    While I agree that it is a shame to see them go, I can understand the economics of it.

    Breed based disciplines show in a different manner than H/J. That and the overlap of not having room to warm up horses for the different breeds cause a lack of interest in both Devon and PNHS from the ASB.

    It would be nice to keep them, but I doubt this decision was not made without looking at all the options and basing it on the financial end. You simply cannot continue to offer classes that are not supported and are a money loss.
    I understand the economic reasoning behind this, however, I am one of those paying spectators who makes the two hour trip each year happily and with anticipation that I'll be seeing the ASB classes, along with the Grand prix. It's an all day at the fair type of outing and I really look forward to it.

    The Farm Show Complex is totally different from the situation at Devon. There is far more room for stabling and warm up of multiple disciplines at Harrisburg. The building is ideally suited for just that type of event.

    Spina:
    It seems that many of the posters who will miss these classes are those that used to ride in them, or at least in that discipline - which (I can't help but wonder) if it's not even interesting enough to you to stick with it, I'm sure you can understand how it wouldn't be a big draw for a general audience.
    I've never ridden or driven in an ASB class, and, although my discipline of preference is hunter/jumper, I find the saddleseat flat classes to be far more interesting than a hunter hack. The Good Hands Class is much more like an equitation medal class, and not simply w/t/c change direction and line up.

    I will be very sad to lose the ASB's from Harrisburg.

    Leave a comment:


  • Molly99
    replied
    Out of curiosity, those that are upset to see the them go, have supported the horse show in any of the following: as an exhibitor in those classes, as a paying spectator or by sponsoring classes.

    PNHS is a benefit show. It is hard to justify keeping classes that lose money instead of making money for the benefactor.

    The entries have declined in that breed divisions, as well as the support as noted above.

    While you could cut the classes that don't fill, but the ASB folks won't come if all the divisions they want to show in are not offered.

    While I agree that it is a shame to see them go, I can understand the economics of it.

    Breed based disciplines show in a different manner than H/J. That and the overlap of not having room to warm up horses for the different breeds cause a lack of interest in both Devon and PNHS from the ASB.

    It would be nice to keep them, but I doubt this decision was not made without looking at all the options and basing it on the financial end. You simply cannot continue to offer classes that are not supported and are a money loss.

    Leave a comment:


  • spina
    replied
    Voice of dissent here. I think it's hard to get a lot people interested in watching another flat class - shaky tails or no. As an occasional novelty, maybe, (as in I'd walk over to the ring to watch if I had to be there for another reason or another ring - or, didn't have anything else to look at while eating my lunch).
    It seems that many of the posters who will miss these classes are those that used to ride in them, or at least in that discipline - which (I can't help but wonder) if it's not even interesting enough to you to stick with it, I'm sure you can understand how it wouldn't be a big draw for a general audience.

    Leave a comment:


  • ccoronios
    replied
    Saddlebreds show FAR less than h/j. Generally, two classes per show (their "qualifying class" and the corresponding championship. That can be at a 4+ day show. VERY rarely are they cross-entered in divisions. Also, they are shown less frequently - show to show. I don't know any who'd go to shows on back-to-back weekends - generally, one a month.

    Leave a comment:


  • BAC
    replied
    I didn't realize the stock seat medal finals were also at MSG, that was before my time too. Wish I had seen it though.

    Leave a comment:


  • War Admiral
    replied
    Yeah... There are show conflicts... And another big piece of the puzzle is that most pro ASB barns are chasing ASHA points, not USEF points; ASHA issues points for some of its award schemes based on the number of horses below you in the class, so there's a school of thought that you go where everybody else is going so that you can be 4th out of 24 at an ASB show (more ASHA points) rather than 4th out of 4 at Devon or Penn Natl. (less ASHA points).

    Me personally, I'd be quite happy with that 4th out of 4 so long as the ribbon said "Devon" or "Penn. Natl." on it!

    Leave a comment:


  • schmoe1
    replied
    I agree with all of you that it is a real shame to lose these other divisions from Harrisburg. It will certainly make it a less diverse and interesting show, but from the dwindling entries in some of those divisions, it cannot be too surprising. If you got to the Ryegate website and look at the results from 2008, there were 2 Amateur Fine Harness horses and none in the Open Fine Harness division. I am not at all familiar with the ASB show circuit, but is it possible that something else is going on at this time, or just does not fit into their schedule? In any case, it is sad to lose them.

    Leave a comment:


  • War Admiral
    replied
    Originally posted by BAC View Post
    As a child I can remember watching the finals of the AHSA Medal, the ASPCA Maclay and the Good Hands during the weekend of the National Horse Show at MSG - yes all 3 finals during one weekend!
    Yepyepyep - and they used to actually have the Stock Seat (as it then was) Medals at MSG as well, before my time.

    To me, this variety is what makes a real National Horse Show.

    Leave a comment:

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