• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Higher Headset?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Higher Headset?

    Last edited by feaky; May. 22, 2012, 10:58 PM.

  • #2
    Your video made me very dizzy.....but was alert enough to notice that you have a really cute horse!!! As for raising his head up, cant really help you there. But if you wanted to do the non-breed hunters with him, his frame looks great the way it is.


    • #3
      I thought he looked good in the video. Why are you needing his head to go up more? In the picture it looked like the horse was behind the vertical which is not how you want your horse to go, but this could have just been the picture.


      • #4
        Getting rid of the very short running martingale would help.


        • #5
          He's very cute. He do okay like he is at local open shows, if your wanting breed shows its hard to say from the video if his confo is going to do well for him. If you want his head more in a dressage frame you will have to work on pushing him from the back to front. Right now it looks like (video is hard to tell) he is putzing around on his forehand. You are going to have to ask for more engagement of the HQ and ask him to push into the bit.
          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


          • #6
            Higher headset - is 1. conformation and 2. training.

            Most of the dressage horses you see only come out of the womb half way set like that. I have a TB who has a pretty normal lower hunter TB headset but when we did third level dressage, he looked like a warmblood. It had NOTHING to do with his HEAD - it had to do with his bum. He dropped his bum slightly, the angle of his hip was more underneathe - he was more engaged, more collected and thus he was higher in front. THAT is the way to train a higher head set - lowering the backend and asking the horse to engage - collect - work off his tush.


            • #7
              Most of the hunter pleasure horses at Arab breed shows get that false headset from too much bit (usually a kimberwicke) plus draw reins and/or a martingale. You also need a horse whose neck is set on naturally high and "hooky".

              Your guy is quite cute. If you want to do breed shows, I suggest you show him in sport horse under saddle. Those classes are judged by either dressage or hunter judges, not Arab trainers. You will do much better there!

              My guy is a Half Arab, and we used to do hunter pleasure. Like your guy, though, he is a real hunter type. We usually did not do well against all the Saddlebred crosses in that division. I quit the main ring for good when we started getting beat by horses that missed leads, bucked, bolted, spooked etc. but snapped their knees up to their chins (which were of course tucked into their chest on a loopy rein). We do "real" hunter exclusively now, and we have much better luck there!


              • #8
                Take a lesson.


                • Original Poster

                  Last edited by feaky; May. 22, 2012, 10:58 PM.


                  • #10
                    Lara had the right focus. Being concerned with his "headset" seems to me to be looking for a gimmick. If your horse is using his back and quarters correctly, he will have his neck and head correctly engaged when on the bit for his breed and conformation, and his front end is light. If you can't get him to do that with you, you need lessons. You do need lessons, you are asking questions regarding riding a horse in a manner you can't do and don't know about.

                    find a trainer to teach you what you need to know. Good luck.
                    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post

                      find a trainer to teach you what you need to know. Good luck.
                      I agree. You should try to find a trainer that does the breed shows so they can help you achieve what you want. You horse is very cute! Good luck!


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tarragon View Post
                        Getting rid of the very short running martingale would help.

                        Yes, I agree! That's a given to me, if you're worried about his head being too low, lose the gadgets that encourage it.

                        If you take off that martingale, where is his head? Why are you using it? (not being snide, I'm genuinely curious)

                        I have a horse that legitimately carries her head too low. She overflexes and puts her chin beneath her chest if I let her. This is all with a nathe bit or happy mouth snaffle and NO martingales, draw reins or other gadgets. I work on lifting my reins (sometimes one at a time - literally straight up) and pushing forward with my legs at the same time.

                        But absolutely first step is to take off the martingale.


                        • #13
                          I showed Arabs as a kid, and had a mare built a lot like your horse. Back then, Arabs were just starting to accept the hunter idea (we often had to show hunt seat against saddle seat riders), and NSH hadn't infringed on those classes. The photo of the other one looked more like an English Pleasure horse from my day. Is yours NSH?

                          Yours has a naturally lower set neck, which makes it hard to get him "up" into that position - probably why he isn't a saddleseat horse. Anyhow, he could use more impulsion from the hindquarters, which takes a lot of persistence. That will help him rock back off of his forehand and will make him look lighter. Do you have a trainer you can work with?

                          Your boy is VERY cute! Good luck.
                          A proud friend of bar.ka.


                          • #14
                            Not to entice anyone back in Arabian showing, but just so you're all aware, there were major changes to the Hunter Judging rules in AHA for this year. Draped reins have to be penalized, BTV must be penalized, etc. There were a few resolutions at convention regarding judging in the Hunter ring. I think people have started to notice that Sporthorse Under Saddle shouldn't look ALL THAT different from Hunter Pleasure, but right now it does!

                            It is a very common evasion technique for Arabians to tuck their heads and ride heavy on the forehand. Sometimes you get a high 'hooky' neck, sometimes you can get the low headset your horse has. Since Arabians generally have kind of an uphill movement anyway, it can be hard to feel.

                            You need to be ok with your horse 'speeding up' for a while. Do a lot of work on the buckle, using your seat to set a rhythm. That takes care of 'speed'. Then start working with the bit again to restrict the SIZE of the horse's steps while maintaining that rhythmic, forward movement. The next step is to get the horse working THROUGH. That's where you'll start to see a proper headset that is dictated from behind.
                            Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior


                            • #15
                              Basically, if you want to do it right, you're going to need to spend a lot of time developing a "positive" connection to the hand (as opposed to your more passive one), getting him on the aids and under your seat, and gradually developing correct collection.

                              What you want is a year or two, at least second level dressage, and probably a more advanced instructor to get you there.

                              Alternatively you could stick him in draw reins, hold on tight, and kick hard. If you don't go over, you'll get your "frame".
                              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY


                              • #16
                                whats BVT and draped rein? I'm not familar with Arab breed shows, though I did have an arab pony jumper a loooong time ago haha.
                                Eight Fences Farm. Mansfield, MA


                                • #17
                                  BTV = behind the vertical. The horse is behind the bit. His neck looks pritty and hooky though, it's been getting a free pass in the show ring for way too long.

                                  Draped rein is a loose rein. It means the rider is picking up no contact with the bit...and indicates that the horse is holding his 'Hunter Headset' through some kind of weird training gimmick, not actual good riding. Proper Hunter riding includes contact through the reins.
                                  Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior


                                  • #18
                                    Your nice little horse is simply not built at all like the pinto in your example-that one has the kind of neck and shoulders that set him up like a swan in front. Your horse just has a different build and will have different abilities....lots more ASB in that pinto and it shows.

                                    Since this is a Hunter/Jumper board I assume you want to do that type riding? in that case, yours is built alot better then your example for this type of work. Especially in an open/all breed show.

                                    Remember, each horse is an individual with different talents and abilities. You can't make what is not there. Work with the way each is built, not what their papers say they should look like or what you wish they did.
                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                                    • #19
                                      That video gave me a headache! I agree with the others who said to get rid of the running martingale. Also, for horses who have a tendency to go to low or duck behind the bit, I have had great success with a plastic mullen mouth bit (Happy Mouth). What you want him to do is move forward into your hands and take the bit, and carry you and the bit. Sometimes with sensitive horses, they are afraid of, or avoiding taking the bit, so they duck behind and go low. This mullen mouth bit is easy on their mouths no matter where they put their head. You also want to make sure that your hands are really quiet and steady, and you just concentrate on pushing him forward from behind to the bit. If he gets a little quick at first, don't worry about it. (As long as he is not bolting or doing something dangerous.) You want to teach him that the bit is his friend and he can go to it. You push him forward into very light, steady hands. If he gets too low, you can widen your hands to tell him that no matter where he puts his head your hands and pressure are the same. You will get him to raise his head by pushing him forward with your legs. Once he is forward and up into the bit, you can control his quickness by slowing your post, relaxing your body, and using your voice to calm him.

                                      A good frame for his and your level would be poll above the withers and nose slightly poked out in front of the vertical line. Don't go for to much flexion in the poll, like the picture you showed us. Get the basics down really good, and do everything as correctly as possible. I second finding a knowledgeable instructor to help you once in a while.

                                      Good luck, it's a cute horse!
                                      "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."


                                      • #20
                                        The horse in the photo apears to have a higher neck set because he is quite collected (his haunches are lowered and his front end is lightened). If you want to develop more collection I would suggest getting dressage lessons from a good dressage coach. They will really be able to help you through the training stages. Take some before pics and then next year take some after pics and you will likely see a big change.