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Higher Headset?

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  • Higher Headset?

    .
    Last edited by feaky; May. 22, 2012, 10:58 PM.

  • #2
    Your video made me very dizzy.....but was alert enough to notice that you have a really cute horse!!! As for raising his head up, cant really help you there. But if you wanted to do the non-breed hunters with him, his frame looks great the way it is.

    Comment


    • #3
      I thought he looked good in the video. Why are you needing his head to go up more? In the picture it looked like the horse was behind the vertical which is not how you want your horse to go, but this could have just been the picture.

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      • #4
        Getting rid of the very short running martingale would help.

        Comment


        • #5
          He's very cute. He do okay like he is at local open shows, if your wanting breed shows its hard to say from the video if his confo is going to do well for him. If you want his head more in a dressage frame you will have to work on pushing him from the back to front. Right now it looks like (video is hard to tell) he is putzing around on his forehand. You are going to have to ask for more engagement of the HQ and ask him to push into the bit.
          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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          • #6
            Higher headset - is 1. conformation and 2. training.

            Most of the dressage horses you see only come out of the womb half way set like that. I have a TB who has a pretty normal lower hunter TB headset but when we did third level dressage, he looked like a warmblood. It had NOTHING to do with his HEAD - it had to do with his bum. He dropped his bum slightly, the angle of his hip was more underneathe - he was more engaged, more collected and thus he was higher in front. THAT is the way to train a higher head set - lowering the backend and asking the horse to engage - collect - work off his tush.

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            • #7
              Most of the hunter pleasure horses at Arab breed shows get that false headset from too much bit (usually a kimberwicke) plus draw reins and/or a martingale. You also need a horse whose neck is set on naturally high and "hooky".

              Your guy is quite cute. If you want to do breed shows, I suggest you show him in sport horse under saddle. Those classes are judged by either dressage or hunter judges, not Arab trainers. You will do much better there!

              My guy is a Half Arab, and we used to do hunter pleasure. Like your guy, though, he is a real hunter type. We usually did not do well against all the Saddlebred crosses in that division. I quit the main ring for good when we started getting beat by horses that missed leads, bucked, bolted, spooked etc. but snapped their knees up to their chins (which were of course tucked into their chest on a loopy rein). We do "real" hunter exclusively now, and we have much better luck there!

              Comment


              • #8
                Take a lesson.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  ...
                  Last edited by feaky; May. 22, 2012, 10:58 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lara had the right focus. Being concerned with his "headset" seems to me to be looking for a gimmick. If your horse is using his back and quarters correctly, he will have his neck and head correctly engaged when on the bit for his breed and conformation, and his front end is light. If you can't get him to do that with you, you need lessons. You do need lessons, you are asking questions regarding riding a horse in a manner you can't do and don't know about.

                    find a trainer to teach you what you need to know. Good luck.
                    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post

                      find a trainer to teach you what you need to know. Good luck.
                      I agree. You should try to find a trainer that does the breed shows so they can help you achieve what you want. You horse is very cute! Good luck!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tarragon View Post
                        Getting rid of the very short running martingale would help.

                        Yes, I agree! That's a given to me, if you're worried about his head being too low, lose the gadgets that encourage it.

                        If you take off that martingale, where is his head? Why are you using it? (not being snide, I'm genuinely curious)

                        I have a horse that legitimately carries her head too low. She overflexes and puts her chin beneath her chest if I let her. This is all with a nathe bit or happy mouth snaffle and NO martingales, draw reins or other gadgets. I work on lifting my reins (sometimes one at a time - literally straight up) and pushing forward with my legs at the same time.

                        But absolutely first step is to take off the martingale.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I showed Arabs as a kid, and had a mare built a lot like your horse. Back then, Arabs were just starting to accept the hunter idea (we often had to show hunt seat against saddle seat riders), and NSH hadn't infringed on those classes. The photo of the other one looked more like an English Pleasure horse from my day. Is yours NSH?

                          Yours has a naturally lower set neck, which makes it hard to get him "up" into that position - probably why he isn't a saddleseat horse. Anyhow, he could use more impulsion from the hindquarters, which takes a lot of persistence. That will help him rock back off of his forehand and will make him look lighter. Do you have a trainer you can work with?

                          Your boy is VERY cute! Good luck.
                          A proud friend of bar.ka.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Not to entice anyone back in Arabian showing, but just so you're all aware, there were major changes to the Hunter Judging rules in AHA for this year. Draped reins have to be penalized, BTV must be penalized, etc. There were a few resolutions at convention regarding judging in the Hunter ring. I think people have started to notice that Sporthorse Under Saddle shouldn't look ALL THAT different from Hunter Pleasure, but right now it does!

                            It is a very common evasion technique for Arabians to tuck their heads and ride heavy on the forehand. Sometimes you get a high 'hooky' neck, sometimes you can get the low headset your horse has. Since Arabians generally have kind of an uphill movement anyway, it can be hard to feel.

                            You need to be ok with your horse 'speeding up' for a while. Do a lot of work on the buckle, using your seat to set a rhythm. That takes care of 'speed'. Then start working with the bit again to restrict the SIZE of the horse's steps while maintaining that rhythmic, forward movement. The next step is to get the horse working THROUGH. That's where you'll start to see a proper headset that is dictated from behind.
                            Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Basically, if you want to do it right, you're going to need to spend a lot of time developing a "positive" connection to the hand (as opposed to your more passive one), getting him on the aids and under your seat, and gradually developing correct collection.

                              What you want is a year or two, at least second level dressage, and probably a more advanced instructor to get you there.

                              Alternatively you could stick him in draw reins, hold on tight, and kick hard. If you don't go over, you'll get your "frame".
                              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                              Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                whats BVT and draped rein? I'm not familar with Arab breed shows, though I did have an arab pony jumper a loooong time ago haha.
                                Eight Fences Farm. Mansfield, MA

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  BTV = behind the vertical. The horse is behind the bit. His neck looks pritty and hooky though, it's been getting a free pass in the show ring for way too long.

                                  Draped rein is a loose rein. It means the rider is picking up no contact with the bit...and indicates that the horse is holding his 'Hunter Headset' through some kind of weird training gimmick, not actual good riding. Proper Hunter riding includes contact through the reins.
                                  Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Your nice little horse is simply not built at all like the pinto in your example-that one has the kind of neck and shoulders that set him up like a swan in front. Your horse just has a different build and will have different abilities....lots more ASB in that pinto and it shows.

                                    Since this is a Hunter/Jumper board I assume you want to do that type riding? in that case, yours is built alot better then your example for this type of work. Especially in an open/all breed show.

                                    Remember, each horse is an individual with different talents and abilities. You can't make what is not there. Work with the way each is built, not what their papers say they should look like or what you wish they did.
                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      That video gave me a headache! I agree with the others who said to get rid of the running martingale. Also, for horses who have a tendency to go to low or duck behind the bit, I have had great success with a plastic mullen mouth bit (Happy Mouth). What you want him to do is move forward into your hands and take the bit, and carry you and the bit. Sometimes with sensitive horses, they are afraid of, or avoiding taking the bit, so they duck behind and go low. This mullen mouth bit is easy on their mouths no matter where they put their head. You also want to make sure that your hands are really quiet and steady, and you just concentrate on pushing him forward from behind to the bit. If he gets a little quick at first, don't worry about it. (As long as he is not bolting or doing something dangerous.) You want to teach him that the bit is his friend and he can go to it. You push him forward into very light, steady hands. If he gets too low, you can widen your hands to tell him that no matter where he puts his head your hands and pressure are the same. You will get him to raise his head by pushing him forward with your legs. Once he is forward and up into the bit, you can control his quickness by slowing your post, relaxing your body, and using your voice to calm him.

                                      A good frame for his and your level would be poll above the withers and nose slightly poked out in front of the vertical line. Don't go for to much flexion in the poll, like the picture you showed us. Get the basics down really good, and do everything as correctly as possible. I second finding a knowledgeable instructor to help you once in a while.

                                      Good luck, it's a cute horse!
                                      ******
                                      "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."
                                      -H.M.E.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        The horse in the photo apears to have a higher neck set because he is quite collected (his haunches are lowered and his front end is lightened). If you want to develop more collection I would suggest getting dressage lessons from a good dressage coach. They will really be able to help you through the training stages. Take some before pics and then next year take some after pics and you will likely see a big change.

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