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Paul Valliere

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  • Paul Valliere

    Paul Valliere has declined to judge the Equus Equitation class in Wellington. I guess he got wind of discussions posted on COTH bulletin boards??
  • Original Poster

    #2
    Paul Valliere has declined to judge the Equus Equitation class in Wellington. I guess he got wind of discussions posted on COTH bulletin boards??

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow. That is great news. How did you find out this information?

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the update. Maybe he got wind of the discussions or the charity that was to benefit did. He may have also seen some of the new or longer suspensions that were handed down to people not adhering the rules and being involved in horse shows etc while still on suspension. Oh well, can't try and figure what is in the head of a person like that-just glad this is over for now.

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow. Perhaps those of you who expressed your discontent with this situation contributed to this decision in some way-if so, I applaud you for being proactive and taking a stand.

          I also applaud Paul. I did not jump in on the last thread because I didn't really have a problem with him judging the event (just my opinion).

          However, I'm sure that he was aware of the controversy his appointment caused (even Towerheads had the headline "PV causes quite a stir..."), and I think it was a rather thoughtful and mature move to turn down the offer. I think this is another example of Paul actively working to give himself the best chance for reinstatement.

          Of course I'm sure many will disagree with me, and that is fine-to each his own. Regardless of your personal opinion of Paul, however, I hope that at least a few of you will give him at least a little recognition for taking steps in the right direction. There are plenty of those who went down with him that have made it quite clear that they have no remorse, no desire to play by the rules, and no respect for their suspension.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Read it on the scrolling banner on Towerheads. You can read without logging in.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hmmm, interesting to note according to the Theads scroll that it was Mason Phelps who made the original request for PV to judge.

              Of course, you can't always believe everything you read in the 'media', can you? Maybe someone on the ground at WEF has some input?

              Comment


              • #8
                This is an appropriate decision on his part.

                Good.

                "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of his devotion."
                Author Unknown....
                [i]\"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be wo

                Comment


                • #9
                  While I applaud him for doing the right thing in this instance, I do not think that his decision should either prevent or preclude a concrete rule change proposal to prevent this sort of thing occurring in the future.

                  ______________

                  "Those who use horses just for the business are crass, classless horsemen."
                  --George Morris
                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well said and therein is the secret of the power we can have. If we only sit here and post our complaints it accomplishes nothing; but turn it into affirmative action we will prove it is our Federation. We pay the bills, and we pay all those salaries, and we can choose not to belong.

                    I hope that you will all keep this in mind when the information from the NHJA is finally published so you can see that it is designed to be a democratice and representative Hunter Association.

                    We need to not only flex our muscles against things but also to take affirmative stands when we see things that are better and improving. We need to look past the fancy packaging and see what's really inside the box.

                    Battle Scarred Veteran
                    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by War Admiral:
                      While I applaud him for doing the right thing in this instance, I do not think that his decision should either prevent or preclude a _concrete rule change proposal to prevent this sort of thing occurring in the future_.

                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      WA, how exactly do you propose to make this rule "change"? The USEF is not a legal entity and cannot have any authority over equine events that have not requested to be under the USEF umbrella.

                      If Joe Doe wants to have a nonrecognized horse show that doesn't follow USEF rules and regs, the USEF has no legal right to make him stop. If he wants Paul to judge, that's Joe's choice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm working on it... There are lots of ways it could be worded.

                        For one example, establishing a time frame would have precluded this particular issue. Suspended persons not permitted on the show grounds within 30 (60, 90, whatever) days before or after a rated show.

                        ______________

                        "Those who use horses just for the business are crass, classless horsemen."
                        --George Morris
                        "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sorry, WA, but that would never work. You can't just tell someone that they can't be on a property for a certain amount of time. How would that ever be enforced? USEF doesn't have jurisdiction like that. They aren't a police force....they don't have the authority outside of their shows to enforce rules like that.

                          Centre Equestre de la Houssaye
                          ---WHX---

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No they are not a police force but we are members and we can report information that is certifiable. For example you could make a rule that a suspended person cannot officiate at any horse show whether recognized by the Federation or not and that to do so would be a violation that would prevent reinstatement or would extend their suspension by (5 years?).

                            That would be simple to document from posted results in the Chronicle or newspapers if it were extended to include not ony officials.

                            We also need to send emails and request that there be a long term cross-index of suspended persons on the web in the same detail as is published in Equestrian. In other words, it is public record and we should be able to put in a name and find all the records of suspensions for some period of time and even if it just starts now because the labor of data processing would be prohibitive it could at least start at some point.

                            Battle Scarred Veteran
                            http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, the USEF DOES make and enforce rules that apply to the time before the show starts. For instance, in eventing,<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                              By 3:00 p.m. of the day prior to the start of the entire competition, or upon arrival if later, each horse shall be issued a number. This number must be worn at all times when the
                              horse is being ridden or exercised.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>and <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The Cross-Country course will be closed to all competitors on the same date. The
                              course closed date must be published in the prize list of the competition. The Dressage
                              arena may not be used after it has been prepared for the competition and closed by the
                              Organizer. The Jumping arena may not be used after it has been prepared for the
                              competition and closed by the Organizer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The closing date for the course is typically several WEEKS before the competition.

                              So there is no hard and fast rule about limiting USEF rules to the days of actual recognized competiton. In principle, they COULD make rules about the day before and/or the day after an recognized competiotn.

                              But I don't think they would have any jurisdiction in the case of a completely unrecognized competition.

                              Janet
                              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
                              Janet

                              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                They wouldn't have jurisdiction to prevent it, but if it was certifiable They could use that as a mitigating circumstance to extend existing punishment, I'm no legel but I think there could be a case made for that.

                                Battle Scarred Veteran
                                http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I think that they could ONLY use it in the case of a lifetime suspension with the right to reapply after X years. In that case, they get to consider all sorts of subjective stuff, and what happens away from recognized shows could "count" under the "subjective stuff". But I don't think they could put it in a fixed term suspennsion.

                                  Janet
                                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
                                  Janet

                                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Good decision on his part- I'd imagine there are people with "the powers that be" that weren't happy that he was using a loophole to judge.. If hes hoping for a reinstatement in two years, the best thing to do is to keep everyone happy. Smart thing for him to do, imho.

                                    This is not a statement about how I feel about PV, btw.

                                    Pictures: My Album
                                    Teneriffe Enterprises- NW Indiana
                                    www.saradanielhaynes.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I also think this was a good decision on PV's part.
                                      This BB is read by more people than everyone thinks.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Well....maybe those calls and letters DID help!

                                        I can say I never got any response to either my call or my letter, but I applaud this decision. And I agree that a rule change or clarification to prevent such a situation if possible in the future is a grand idea. I'd say I'd vote for it since I've now formally re-joined USEF after a number of years' absence, but then we can't vote, can we ....

                                        Comment

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