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AQHA Hunter Under Saddle (and now Reining!!). Update - AQHA Statement Pg. 5

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  • #81
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandy M:
    HiJumpGirl - ...JG Appaloosa Sport Horses... are heavily foundation Appaloosa bred, as are both the stallions at Confetti Farms (Choklate Confetti and Butterwap Confetti)... The other notable "WAP" horse, Wap Spotted, a son of Wap Spot 2, was out of an Appaloosa mare and is also more App than TB... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    i must have said that wrong, then. I really enjoy the sporty appaloosa, EITHER the tall foundation bred type (confetti and wap spotted included), OR the tb and wb crosses. The Apps I've seen that are little more than QH with (or without!) color tend to be built downhill and move on the forehand in much the manner we are discussing here.

    when I am in the market for a horse in a couple years, it sounds like you're someone I should be asking for help and opinions! Thanks for setting me straight, Sandy M
    "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom" Barack Obama

    Comment


    • #82
      Yeah, Hi-jump, finding a REAL Appaloosa is hard to do. Even my present guy has a high percentage of TB in him, though my previously horses were heavily foundation bred, 16 hands and 16.3 respectively, and very successful as both eventers and H/J. (Neither was particularly fond of dressage )

      If and when I start looking again, I think it will be with Confetti Farms, since they are out here on the west coast. I had even considered "breeding my own," and a friend offered her lovely TB mare to breed to Oreo, but the mare died.

      So I'm just going on with my guy for the time being (whom I could NEVER sell). He's 16.2, full color, and very App in personality, if somewhat TB in conformation. The breed registry founders did not like the way the breed was going when the breeders started with the HEAVY influx of QH blood, but I don't know if it can be stopped at this point. The Foundation Appaloosa Horse Registry preserves some of the old bloodlines. I understand (and someone from Canada who is knowledgeable would know better than I), that the Canadian Government has told the Canadian Appaloosa registry that they better get "more Appaloosa in their Appaloosas" or the accreditation as a breed society will be yanked. The result: The ApHC won't accept Canadian-registered horses any more. At least that's what I heard. So.... to register with ApHC, please bring on your QHs, I guess. If it's 7/8 QH but has one App parent in there somewhere, they're happy to call it an App (I exaggerate, but there are some horses that are all but "purebred" QH registered as Appaloosas). Nothing wrong with a good QH, but they ain't Apps!

      Comment


      • #83
        Sandy M:

        Because I love to post pictures and happen to get most of my education from an App (although breeding was unknown I remember the owner always telling me she went directly back to the Nez Perce (sp?) Indian ponies). This mare was pretty much retired when I got to her but hated it. She had done mostly dressage, but that didn't stop her from teaching me the ropes over fences. She was so cool and knew way more than my little brain was ready for. I have pictures of her in beautiful self carriage at a time when I didn't even know what bending really entailed.

        Nug and I
        Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
        Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

        Comment


        • #84
          Very nice, RugBug. Definitely looks a foundation type - varnish roan/blanket, good bone.

          My first two were indestructible, lived to be 25 and 27, respectively, and were 100% sound even at the time of their death(s). My present guy is a little iffier in the legs (sadly, the TB influence), but he is 18 and still going strong. He's never had "breakdown" type lamenesses, but definite injuries - falling on cement, etc., from which he always has bounced back. I just baby him a little more these days (ice his legs after hard work outs, etc.)

          Love them Apps!!!

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #85
            The AQHA notice about Hunter Under Saddle is up on their web site:AQHA statement
            Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
            www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com

            Comment


            • #86
              SandyM-Even today horses are coming from the huntfield into the show ring and doing well. An outside course does not equate field hunter, although more shows should have them if people want to call themselves "hunter" period. I mean "hunter" does imply outdoors. I think this is another link. But if I was going to hilltop, a quiet ground covering solid citizen is my first choice and I think the AQHA is going for that standard.

              The AQHA is aware and responding to peanut rollers. Alex Ross is doing an awesome job, especially since he just took over the job.
              http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

              Comment


              • #87
                I'm no expert, by any means, on either hunter shows or HUS classes. I've been around hunters for most of my adult horse years. I have several friends who do the HUS either in AQHA or open shows.
                The first time I ever saw a HUS class at an open show, I was absolutely flabbergasted. I expected to see the same type of class at the QH/open show as I would at a B or A hunter show. I saw almost zero similiarities, one of the few being an English saddle.
                I'm not saying one is better than the other, but if the AQHA wants to show the versatility of it's wonderful horses.. it needs to set a standard that more closely resembles a Hunter show. Even the examples of horses with a more moderate headset wouldn't exactly clean up at a Hunter show. I'm not saying they couldn't.. but a hunter is not a peanut roller.
                I read the AQHA statement and I applaud them, but I too don't have much faith in them. My friends who show in AQHA shows don't either.
                One of my friends crosses over from hunter shows to open shows and does the HUS classes there. At one show (open, but mostly QH types there), the class was asked to do a pattern. The class rules were posted by the arena.. it said that flying lead changes were optional, simple changes were okay. Well since my friend has a TB well-versed in lead changes, she did them flying. Guess what? She got the gate. The judge's explanation was that she was "showing off". This WAS an open show.. so I'm not attacking the AQHA world. However, the judge was an AQHA judge.
                Anyway,just some things I've seen and I'd thought I'd post them as food for thought.
                QHs are really wonderful horses, I love them and I'd like to have one.

                Lawny

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #88
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I read the AQHA statement and I applaud them, but I too don't have much faith in them. My friends who show in AQHA shows don't either.
                  <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Time will tell. Actually, not much time, as the AQHA Youth World Show is in early August and the judging there will set the standard for the big fall shows, which set the standard for the next year.
                  Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
                  www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Skam - "Hunter doesn't imply outdoor.." It DOESN'T?????? Of course, "hunter" for the purpose of horse shows has evolved into an arena class to demonstrate "hunter like" form over "natural" fences... but the origin is from hunter riders, i.e., people who fox hunted, to show off their horses, so of course it's origin IS "outdoor." I know, I know, semantics.... but I sure would like to go to a local "A" show and asked how many people in the hunter classes actually HUNT. I know in my area, the answer would probably be..... NONE. Perhaps over on the Peninsula south of San Francisco, home of the Los Altos Hunt, there might be a few horses that both show as hunters and actually hunt, but I doubt there are very many.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Guess what? She got the gate. The judge's explanation was that she was "showing off". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Isn't a "horse show" about "showing off"?
                      Janet

                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #91
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandy M:
                        .. but I sure would like to go to a local "A" show and asked how many people in the hunter classes actually HUNT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Ok, evolution happens. Large tracts of open ground to hunt on have mostly disappeared within driving distance of population centers. Dressage and Three Day Eventing, I believe, were supposed to demonstrate the complete training of a military horse. How many horses or riders in those events have served in the military cavalry? Reining is supposed to demonstrate handiness in working a cow - there are no cows at the reining shows.

                        So what would you call a show hunter class to separate it from jumpers?
                        Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
                        www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> .... but I sure would like to go to a local "A" show and asked how many people in the hunter classes actually HUNT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Around here, you would get quite a few. For instance I am pretty sure the both Betty Oare and Snowden Clark hunt.
                          Janet

                          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #93
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> .... but I sure would like to go to a local "A" show and asked how many people in the hunter classes actually HUNT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Around here, you would get quite a few. For instance I am pretty sure the both Betty Oare and Snowden Clark hunt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Yes, but I bet they don't go to A shows with the SAME HORSES that they hunt.
                            Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
                            www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Skam - Sorry, misread. you did say "outdoors." Me Bad.

                              Janet, Plum - after I posted, I thought.... y'know, back east, specially in VA, MD, etc. I'll bet there ARE a fair number of "hunters" that show and hunt. But out here in California.... I would guess very few show hunters ever see the hunt field. Now, I have both hunted/evented/shown as a hunter the same horse... but I didn't do "A" shows, only "B" and "C" shows, and on Apps, at that, so I don't think "I" count. ROFLOL

                              Plum - But reiners also show in working cowhorse where they DO have to work a cow - dry work(pattern) then cow work.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Plumcreek:
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> .... but I sure would like to go to a local "A" show and asked how many people in the hunter classes actually HUNT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Around here, you would get quite a few. For instance I am pretty sure the both Betty Oare and Snowden Clark hunt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Yes, but I bet they don't go to A shows with the SAME HORSES that they hunt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Someone posted a picture of Betty getting ready to go out...on a big ole Belgian (cross probably, but it was BIG). Of course, that doesn't mean she doesn't take her show horses out, but then again....
                                Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Yes, but I bet they don't go to A shows with the SAME HORSES that they hunt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Perhaps not. They both have extensive strings, and have specialists for both. But some of the "one horse" owners do.

                                  And conversely, I know that the horse who was the VHSA high point A/O hunter a couple of years ago was hunted before she hit the show ring (though, I think, with a different rider).
                                  Janet

                                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandy M:
                                    Plum - But reiners also show in working cowhorse where they DO have to work a cow - dry work(pattern) then cow work. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    Actually no they don't (or I should say they all don't ). In Working Cowhorse reining is the dry part of the class with no cows. In Reining classes, they don't work cows, they just rein.

                                    Jo
                                    ~~Some days are a total waste of makeup.~~

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      I've seen a couple HUS horses that would win in any venue. And some USEF judges are AQHA judges too, and not all AQHA judges are approved to judge the HUS classes. I agree with Plum Creek that after afew big shows the tides can change.
                                      http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jvanrens:
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandy M:
                                        Plum - But reiners also show in working cowhorse where they DO have to work a cow - dry work(pattern) then cow work. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Actually no they don't (or I should say they all don't ). In Working Cowhorse reining is the dry part of the class with no cows. In Reining classes, they don't work cows, they just rein.

                                        Jo <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        The name of the discipline being searched for here is Reined Cow Horse, that's the only one which includes herd work, fence work, and a reining pattern.

                                        I think Plumcreek's point is valid, that reining is now far from its roots.

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skam:
                                          I've seen a couple HUS horses that would win in any venue. And some USEF judges are AQHA judges too, and not all AQHA judges are approved to judge the HUS classes. I agree with Plum Creek that after afew big shows the tides can change. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Yes, some HUS horses can win anywhere: the great Regal Lark with Shane George up was Champion at the largest USEF shows at 1st and 2nd year GWH and in almost the same time frame, won the Reserve Superhorse at the AQHA World Show.

                                          All AQHA approved judges are approved to judge ALL the classes, HUS included, (part of the problem - my working hunter round has been judges by more than one cow cutter). Strangely, it is the new Restricted Judges (many USEF) that can judge their specialty - over fences classes, but NOT Hunter Under Saddle (no fences).

                                          Yes, whatever type of HUS horses win at the Youth World and the Congress, that will be the standard copied by exhibitors at the weekend shows next year. It is really up to the judges, to now set that standard so they cannot say, in the future, that they have no correct horses to place. This will take judge courage!!
                                          Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
                                          www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com

                                          Comment

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