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AQHA Hunter Under Saddle (and now Reining!!). Update - AQHA Statement Pg. 5

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  • #41
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RugBug:
    ...It's AQHA's version. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ...for AQHA horses. What's your problem?

    Comment


    • #42
      There is a gray QH on dreamhorse that does well in HUS. I removed the link becuase I didn't think it was appropriate that someone else's sale horse was getting critiqued here!

      He is just fabulous!
      Man plans. God laughs.

      Comment


      • #43
        He is lovely, but I sure hope that with all the points he is winning, he is in the Incentive Fund! If not, he'll be hard to sell

        Comment


        • #44
          WOW, $65,000 for a horse that can walk, trot and canter really nicely.....

          So far removed from the traditional QH - looks like a TB....
          The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

          Comment


          • #45
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scotchdun:
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RugBug:
            ...It's AQHA's version. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            ...for AQHA horses. What's your problem? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Not much of a problem, scotchdun. If you had read my post you would know what I object to. I don't believe what is being judged is truly Hunter Under Saddle. Like Plumcreek states, it's more "English Pleasure." Call it that and be done with it. Just like when I go to a baseball game I expect to see baseball being played, not kickball. The two are different, different enough that we avoid shows that are heavy in QH participants (not AQHA shows, but usually fair type shows, etc with heavy western representation) because we know the judging will not be true HUS but the western version.

            Oh, and I like that gray horse. Lovely trot. Like I said before, I'd love to take him and get him off his forehand and raise that poll up (at least above his withers). But that's just MHO....
            Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
            Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

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            • #46
              RugBug - I am with you 100%! I have absolutely no problem with AQHA (or APHA or ApHC)conducting its English classes in whatever manner and under whatever standards it wishes, but DON'T CALL IT HUNTER UNDER SADDLE. Call it "Hunt Seat Pleasure." As I am sure many on this thread know, at the "A" level in open shows, you canNOT show in HUS unless you show in at least one class over fences within the division. No one who is going to show over fences wants their horse going in the manner HUS horses go (or have gone - I reserve judgment on the "changes" and whether they will actually happen) in AQHA, ApHC and APHA shows. I have to laugh when I see copies of the QH Journal and Appaloosa Journal with National/World show results. There will be 30-40 and more horses in the various "Hunter Under Saddle" classes, perhaps 10-12 horses in the 2'6" classes, BUT the minute the fences hit 3' or better (in ApHC 3'3" and 3'6" for hunters, with 3'9" and above for jumpers), the class numbers drop to 4 or 5 horses. Gee, you mean all those "hunters" in the HUS classes can't jump? Ain't hunters then - they are PLEASURE horses.

              I think it is interesting to note that when I retired my Appaloosa from eventing in his late teens and started to do breed shows (over fences only) and open shows, I placed and occasionally won, both on the flat and over fences at open shows. At breed shows, I won most of my over fence classes, and the ones I did not win, I lost to a fellow former eventer. If the other former eventer was not at the show, I never (over a period of four years) had to jump off at a breed show: I was invariably the only one who went clean. The firt major breed show I took him to, he was circuit champion jumper - with never a jump off, and usually, if the class was 3'6" or above - no more than one or two horses for competition. That was, admittedly, a while ago (circa 1987 - 1991). I certainly hope things have improved since then, but the numbers I see listed for class participation in the National/World shows (ApHC) don't seem to indicate any improvement. I realize there are many more QH competitors, but since ApHC pretty much follows AQHA rules down the line, I think the comparison is valid.

              Comment


              • #47
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandy M:
                Gee, you mean all those "hunters" in the HUS classes can't jump? Ain't hunters then - they are PLEASURE horses. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Maybe the "H" in HUS means hilltopper under saddle?
                Man plans. God laughs.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Well if we are going to split hairs, let's split-what "we" do isn't "hunters" anymore either!

                  Hello-forward canter or hand gallop around a hunt field, showing in a ring with jumps that look like those found in the hunt field???

                  When do you count strides when you hunt?

                  There is dirty pool in EVERY discipline-including hunters and jumpers.

                  I don't care for the peanut rollers but I drool at the very thought of a QH cross

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
                    This is what is winning in the HUS:

                    http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse...orse_id=421294

                    He is just fabulous! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Yes, lovley horse. I'm a big fan of the SBW babies.

                    And, he sold at Tattersalls earlier this year for WAY less (like 44K less) than the current asking price

                    And, yes I'm a nerd and read sale catalogs and sale results religously for all the major QH sales

                    Quite frankly, I don't understand why folks get their panties in a twist over the name of a class in an association in which they don't even participate. I mean, I don't sit around expounding on why Grand Prix dressage should be called giraffes under drama queens flouncing about or why Advanced Eventing should be called suicidal maniacs under adrenaline junkies. I simply choose not to participate and figure to each his own - what exactly is so difficult with that concept?
                    www.meandercreek.com

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MeanderCreek:

                      And, yes I'm a nerd and read sale catalogs and sale results religously for all the major QH sales

                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      What are these catalogs and "sale" results in which they put who bought them and how much they go for?? Can anyone access these? Where are they, and how do people feel about them?

                      I think this would be considered a major no-no in the regular hunter world. Talk about an invasion of privacy. The majority of parents out there do NOT want their own kids to know how much they paid for that fancy large pony of theirs, much less having the rest of the world know that they spent a quarter million dollars on the thing.
                      *******
                      Lover of Nimmerdor, the Red Sox, and the jumper ring.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Wow, ok, it's late and I'm tired. I just put two and two together-we're talking auctions here, eh? Never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the box...
                        *******
                        Lover of Nimmerdor, the Red Sox, and the jumper ring.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          RugBug & Sandy M...

                          Why does the hunter world feel they have the right to dictate what another association calls one of their classes. Just because an AQHA HUS class isn't the exact same as an USEF HUS class, why does the AQHA have to change the class name?

                          The "holier than thou" attitude is a bit much at times!

                          Personally, my own QH who was winning at the AQHA shows, crossed over to the A-rated hunter shows and basically kicked butt. If there was such a vast difference in class standards, I doubt he would have been so successful in both venues.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Yes, show hunters trying to say QH hunters aren't hunters is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black...... The true "hunter under saddle" needs to be sure footed, level headed and able to stand still after a good gallop with the herd. I do believe these requirements come far before the need to be a cute mover!

                            Don't QH shows have both english pleasure and hunter under saddle classes? What are the parameters.
                            The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              We are showing a 4 year old QH at the moment which, in three weeks time, was circuit champion at a large AQHA show in the open hunter hack (14 entries), which is a class with two jumps and rail work, where the judges obviously loved him on the flat as he won two of the four classes, then went on to a "AA" rated USEF show, where he was champion in the Young Hunter, also winning the hack. One week later he was moved up to the pre-green at an "AA" rated show, where he not only won the hack (with 25 horses) but two of the over fences classes as well. He wasn't presented any differently under saddle to suit the QH or the
                              USEF judges. Of course, you have to look pretty hard on his pedigree to find the one QH amongst all the TB's! But he is the epitome of the modern QH HUS and has no problem crossing over to the h/j world.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Magnolia,
                                No we (AQHA shows) do not have English Pleasure and HUS. We only have HUS. Which I guess is the debate here. Some people would like to rename it English Pleasure. Whatever they call it, I am glad they offer that class. I, personally, have no desire to jump. I started out as a youth riding "real hunters" but those days are long gone. I love riding English and QH's but if jumping were a requirement then I guess I'd have to be happy just watching.
                                I don't see what the big deal is to people who don't even show the QH circuit. I appreciate a great horse no matter what discipline it is. I may not choose to practice that discipline myself but I am not going to ridicule it either.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Actually, I "semi" agree: I think that open show "hunters" should be separated into, not "conformation" and "working", but "show hunters" and "field hunters," and field hunters should be shown, at a good gallop, over inside AND outside courses: They are the REAL hunters.

                                  As far as "why should [open show] hunters dictate what AQHA calls it's classes..." - the open show hunters and the standards for those hunters existed long before AQHA ever thought of having HUS classes. I will concede that the rarified world of top show hunters these days bears little resemblance to the hunt field, and I wish they would show some of the brilliance they used to, rather than be automatons.. but still, they set the standard. AQHA can call the class what they want, but IMHO, as long as they call it HUS, and judge as they have up until this supposed rule change, people in open shows are still going to say "Those are NOT hunters under saddle by accepted open standards."

                                  Yes, there are some AQHA horses that cross over successfully, but there are many many MANY more, who still do the "western pleasure under hunt seat tack" and WIN at AQHA shows. I hope that this new change will actually happen and then AQHA can truly call it's classes "HUNTER" under saddle, but if things continue as they have been, I still think it should be designated "Hunt Seat Pleasure," since the performances awarded, for the most part, do NOT conform to the standards of the open division, which has long pre-existed AQHA shows.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    I ask the judges what they think. So far all have told me they need more people to ride to the standard so they can place them and as soon as riders see who is winning they will change.


                                    By the way Rugbug and Sandy need to "hack off".
                                    http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Oh geeze, I hate to ask this since...well, all of you sound so educated in this area...but what is peanut rolling?
                                      horsebabe11

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KellyS:
                                        RugBug & Sandy M...

                                        Why does the hunter world feel they have the right to dictate what another association calls one of their classes. Just because an AQHA HUS class isn't the exact same as an USEF HUS class, why does the AQHA have to change the class name?

                                        The "holier than thou" attitude is a bit much at times!

                                        . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        When it effects me, I think I have a say. No, I don't go to AQHA shows, but the majority of open shows around here are judged by QH people and they are judging to QH standards. It's a waste of time for me to take my horse to those shows so I don't even bother.

                                        And no, this isn't "holier than thou" but it is stating a contradictory opinion. Yes, I have an opinion on this topic...and it's a strong opinion but just because it isn't all "susie butterflies and flowers" doesn't mean it's invalid or holier than thou. How many times do you hear people say eventing dressage is not real dressage? Same type of thing here.

                                        LMH - I agree with you the show ring hunters are not the "true" hunters from a historical context. I think I even made that point in another thread. Field hunters and show hunters are different beasts. I personally think SandyM's idea of classes for the field hunters is awesome. Give some credit to those amazing horses that just aren't fancy enough for the show ring.

                                        Skam: Do judges have the right to not pin if there is no one that meets the standards? I know they do in USEF shows (although it's VERY, VERY rarely done). I'm sure a couple classes with no first place, etc. would wake the competitors up and have them grabbing their rule books. Or, sadly, they would complain and the judge would never get hired again.
                                        Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                        Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Coronado: Peanut Rolling is when a horse goes around with it's nose almost touching the ground (looks like it could roll a peanut along the floor with it!)
                                          Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

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