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CWD: Redo on custom saddle?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by alto View Post
    Except OP rode in a demo saddle that was the same but calf vs grain, & coach etc approved - so if this saddle measures to spec, I don't see that a change of opinion in fit has anything to do with CWD ...

    If saddle measures "off" I'd expect CWD to sort everything without charging OP any additional fees - I'd further expect CWD to offer some product compensation

    What happened to the CWD "if anything changes we'll swap things out for a year to make you happy" policy? Why wouldn't that apply?!? Even if she just doesn't like the leather...
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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    • #62
      Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
      What happened to the CWD "if anything changes we'll swap things out for a year to make you happy" policy? Why wouldn't that apply?!? Even if she just doesn't like the leather...
      the policy you signed must've been v.e.r.y different than the one I almost signed

      nowhere in mine did the company agree to cease their pursuit of profit & fund my saddle indecisions ... me paying for a grain leather saddle after loving the calf leather demo saddle & then concluding that I really do need the calf after all, is my foible not CWD's ... at least in my real life world ... in which CWD might be so kind as to take back my reject saddle (made to my choices) & make me a new version for only the additional costs associated with the leather upgrade.

      At some point the person choosing personal options becomes responsible for choices made.

      I'm confused when someone doesn't just buy that perfect demo saddle <shrug>

      Comment


      • #63
        Alto,

        Most reps I know aren't anxious to sell demos because, well, they want the commission on a new saddle.

        It also sounds to me like it's quite possible that the OP didn't get what she thought she was ordering.

        Post #8

        Originally posted by amnich123 View Post
        Yes, a former trainer of the barn that I ride at watched me test ride in a demo with the same seat size & flap that I ordered custom. I then went off of the rep's recommendation. I'm 5'5 with a 17" seat and 3L flap. I'm literally swimming in the saddle. Can't find my position.

        I contacted my rep this weekend and she's coming down Friday. Hopefully things will work out and what I'm hoping that'll happen will be that I can place another order in the correct size(cost free) and they'll take back the saddle and give me a loaner to use while I'm waiting.

        If I place the order this Friday do you think I'll be able to get it before France goes on vacation in the summer? (Heard they close in the summer)

        Emphasis mine. The rep made recommendations to the OP about what she should order different than the demo, it could well be those differences she doesn't like.

        Post #19

        Originally posted by amnich123 View Post
        I test rode the model I ordered and found the delivered saddle was different.
        If what she was told she was getting differed from the saddle she got, she didn't get what she ordered. Period.

        As for the "we'll make it right" guarantee... that was verbally stated to a friend of mine who just ordered. She was told within a year if the saddles needed a panel switch out or whatever--- it was included. That was also promised to Sammicat, who recently posted about a negative CWD experience. CWD seems willing to say LOTS of things when they're making a sale, anyway...
        ~Veronica
        "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
        http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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        • #64
          I recently have had a similar issue with my CWD custom order. I was assured by the rep that if the flap length ordered did not work for me they would order me a new saddle. She said it doesn't matter if I requested a forward flap or if the rep had, if it doesn't fit they will address it. If your rep isn't helpful I would suggest contacting their head office. I ended up having one of their managers from California come and assess my saddle as I am on my 3rd set of replacement panels to get the proper fit.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by CalHorse View Post
            I ended up having one of their managers from California come and assess my saddle as I am on my 3rd set of replacement panels to get the proper fit.


            And that is why I won't buy a custom saddle. Hard to imagine going through that much angst.

            I will only buy a saddle that I can ride in because there's no way to know that you will like the custom saddle better than the demo.
            Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
            EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
              Alto,

              Most reps I know aren't anxious to sell demos because, well, they want the commission on a new saddle.
              My CWD rep was very willing to sell demos.


              If what she was told she was getting differed from the saddle she got, she didn't get what she ordered. Period.
              I did state that if the saddle measured "off" OP should receive a new saddle plus recompense.


              As for the "we'll make it right" guarantee... that was verbally stated to a friend of mine who just ordered. She was told within a year if the saddles needed a panel switch out or whatever--- it was included. That was also promised to Sammicat, who recently posted about a negative CWD experience. CWD seems willing to say LOTS of things when they're making a sale, anyway...
              Sammicat wanted to return a saddle without ever trying to sort out the fit issue and THAT is what CWD clearly states in their contract will not happen ... purchaser commits to a saddle, CWD commits to making that saddle fit the horse - as measured by their rep on that day - and the rider - as determined that (order) day.

              (note there is also no statement from CWD that all costs associated with that saddle re-fitting will be covered by CWD, eg, there is no mention of shipping fees AND I certainly could get no written confirmation from CWD that they would pay all shipping fees for a saddle from Canada to California & back again EXCEPT for a single go-around ... and the manager from California was certainly not enthusiastic about dropping by )

              It doesn't really matter what a rep "says", one needs to read the contract that one signs - "says" is open to much (mis)interpretation which is why there is a written contract (hopefully) read & (certainly) signed by both parties.

              I don't think it's a great leap in understanding to realize that CWD makes top money on the saddles that fit straight out of the box, every additional rep visit, adjustments to the saddle cuts into the profit margin ...
              If client is at a "CWD barn", those rep visits happen often & the "free" service CWD can/will extend rather differs from the situation of a solo client that meets with rep at Vendor's Row on Big Show Day, & then wants a rep to travel 1000km to client's personal barn ... it doesn't matter if you use the initials "CWD" or any other branded saddle, anyone that is "off the map" & buys a saddle is going to be the beneficiary of a lot less special "free" care.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Bogie View Post
                I will only buy a saddle that I can ride in because there's no way to know that you will like the custom saddle better than the demo.
                If I could've done so I certainly would never have gone to the bother of sussing out what might fit, placed the order, then waited for that modified saddle to appear

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by alto View Post
                  If I could've done so I certainly would never have gone to the bother of sussing out what might fit, placed the order, then waited for that modified saddle to appear
                  And I appreciate my horses and my saddle fitter a lot after hearing stories like this. My horses are not difficult to fit -- or at least my saddle fitter makes it seem that way. It's me that's the hard fit (very tall) but so far I've managed to find saddles that work with patience and some creative internet searches.
                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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                  • Original Poster

                    #69
                    So theres no confusion, I ordered what I tried in a demo and that was what my rep recommended. So off of her decision and my trainer agreeing, I went off of that. Right now I am more concerned about the seat size than the flap size. the 3L isn't WAY too long, it's the seat of the saddle that is not right. Even though it's a 17" I've had several of my riding peers and 3 trainers tell me the seat is too big for me and I'm an average sized person.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by alto View Post


                      Sammicat wanted to return a saddle without ever trying to sort out the fit issue and THAT is what CWD clearly states in their contract will not happen ... purchaser commits to a saddle, CWD commits to making that saddle fit the horse - as measured by their rep on that day - and the rider - as determined that (order) day.
                      It is my understanding that Sammicat's saddle already had CWD's widestt tree and it was approximately an inch too narrow. It is a foam flocked saddle with fairly thin padding. So no removing padding or going to a slimmer panel. There was nothing to work with other than widening the tree.
                      If I just paid for a fully custom saddle I don't want them to have to widen the tree to make it fit. I would be forever worried about the integrity of the tree. It also changes the value of the saddle for resale. Many people will not buy or will not pay as much for a tree that has been adjusted already. Plus if she sells the horse it was fitted for later and wants to change the tree she may not be able to since it was already adjusted once. There basically was no way that CWD was going to be able to fit that horse. An inch sounds like a lot to widen a tree and not effect the integrity.
                      Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by SonnysMom View Post
                        It is my understanding that Sammicat's saddle already had CWD's widestt tree and it was approximately an inch too narrow. It is a foam flocked saddle with fairly thin padding. So no removing padding or going to a slimmer panel. There was nothing to work with other than widening the tree.
                        If I just paid for a fully custom saddle I don't want them to have to widen the tree to make it fit. I would be forever worried about the integrity of the tree. It also changes the value of the saddle for resale. Many people will not buy or will not pay as much for a tree that has been adjusted already. Plus if she sells the horse it was fitted for later and wants to change the tree she may not be able to since it was already adjusted once. There basically was no way that CWD was going to be able to fit that horse. An inch sounds like a lot to widen a tree and not effect the integrity.
                        I don't disagree
                        S & I talked privately about the difficulties in fitting wide horses when there are v.e.r.y few demo saddles available that fit these horses well enough for the rider to get any real feeling of the saddle.

                        But a small (not so) secret, CWD opens & closes those trees & there is nothing on the stamp to record this - you need to take the serial number & query directly.

                        CWD (like other companies) is also adamant that they have the right to attempt to (re)fit that saddle before the sale is undone - further that they have a year (time frame in the contract I was offered) in which to accomplish this - if you don't want to play that game, you pay a penalty fee: CWD is very transparent in this regard.

                        As soon as you request written/signed confirmations, saddle companies grow much more conservative (I had extravagant verbal offers from not just CWD).




                        It's friday & hopefully everything works out just as the OP would like

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #72
                          So, as mentioned earlier I had my area rep out today to re-evaluate.
                          After having her watch me ride, my trainer and the rep had me shorten my stirrups two holes which made a worlds difference. Suddenly my leg was in the correct position which set my seat farther back where I was supposed to be sitting in the saddle. She also observed that I ride more toward the pommel and that I have a big problem with perching (part of the problem--a long term habit of mine) and that I'm fighting the saddle because I'm riding incorrectly and not letting it fix my position.

                          So, I'm giving it another month to get used to the saddle and the stirrup length and go from there (taking into consideration that even though the saddle feels great, it still has a lot of breaking in to do)

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Glad she was so helpful... Curious two trainers didn't notice it was just too long stirrups?!
                            ~Veronica
                            "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                            http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #74
                              Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                              Glad she was so helpful... Curious two trainers didn't notice it was just too long stirrups?!
                              I guess not! But at least for now the problem has been fixed. Now I just have to correct the way I ride to the saddle.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Um, yeah. I don't think I would be very happy if I spent $6k and had to change the way I ride to make the saddle fit me. I am glad you are happy to keep trying but....good grief, you ought to be able to ride in your saddle with no stirrups at all without hating it. Especially for that kind of money. Just saying.

                                BTW, my trainers have all had me flat a good two to three holes longer than I jump. So in a CWD can you not do that? Bizarre. I can put my stirrups in a range of five holes, or off completely, and the balance is still fundamentally the same. I don't think the stirrups should be forcing your leg and seat into any position. This just all sounds so wrong to me. But I think your seat should be where it is independent of your stirrups, and you may continue to fight this saddle. I hope that it is better than it sounds and it works out.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post
                                  Um, yeah. I don't think I would be very happy if I spent $6k and had to change the way I ride to make the saddle fit me. I am glad you are happy to keep trying but....good grief, you ought to be able to ride in your saddle with no stirrups at all without hating it. Especially for that kind of money. Just saying.

                                  BTW, my trainers have all had me flat a good two to three holes longer than I jump. So in a CWD can you not do that? Bizarre.
                                  This x 1000. My saddle is a good balance for me (and my horse), and I'm comfortable with a large range of stirrup lengths. All the way from h/j flat length to hike-em-up jockey style--a good 10-12 holes difference.

                                  I also find it a little odd that the rep and not your trainer is telling you to change the way you ride.
                                  I love my Econo-Nag!

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by alto View Post
                                    ... I'm confused when someone doesn't just buy that perfect demo saddle <shrug>
                                    Sadly, the CWD Rep (at least mine) said I COULD NOT buy the demo saddle, even if it was the perfect saddle.

                                    Also, I believe the CWD warranty is that they will make the saddle fit the rider/horse, not that they will make a saddle with nicer leather, etc. If you want to do that, my guess is that they will take the old custom saddle as a trade in (at a reduced rate) and will use it toward the new saddle.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by SonnysMom View Post
                                      It is my understanding that Sammicat's saddle already had CWD's widestt tree and it was approximately an inch too narrow. It is a foam flocked saddle with fairly thin padding. So no removing padding or going to a slimmer panel. There was nothing to work with other than widening the tree.
                                      Correct. I didn't want to go through the problem of having them widen an already wide tree, and the tree was not going to be able to be widened enough. On top of that, the saddle didn't sit right and the paneling was iffy.

                                      And ... the buyer is on the hook for at least some of the shipping and out of a saddle for the time spent on the repairs.

                                      The leather was great though.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Really? Stirrup length??? I don't know, sounds weird to me that this has just come to light now.

                                        On the plus side, I was able to trade my CWD in for a used Devacoux + other consideration. Very decent of them in the end ... so ... yeah ... there's that ...

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by sammicat View Post
                                          Really? Stirrup length??? I don't know, sounds weird to me that this has just come to light now.
                                          I agree...the resolution is just so weird to me. You ride with a great group of trainers and none of them noticed your stirrups before now? But as long as you're happy, it doesn't really matter what we think, though.

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