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Unprofessional Professionals

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  • Unprofessional Professionals

    Every now and then I see a professional behaving unprofessionally toward another rider. This week, for instance, on schooling day at a large rated show, I watched a professional rider cross directly into the path of an amateur cantering down a line. They avoided collision, but he screamed at her, called her an idiot, and continued to berate her each time he passed her in the ring. Her trainer wisely told her to ignore it, but the whole thing struck a nerve with me.

    If you see a professional bullying someone like this at a horse show, what can you even do? Can a steward get involved? Frustrating.

  • #2
    Originally posted by wonderland9 View Post
    Every now and then I see a professional behaving unprofessionally toward another rider. This week, for instance, on schooling day at a large rated show, I watched a professional rider cross directly into the path of an amateur cantering down a line. They avoided collision, but he screamed at her, called her an idiot, and continued to berate her each time he passed her in the ring. Her trainer wisely told her to ignore it, but the whole thing struck a nerve with me.

    If you see a professional bullying someone like this at a horse show, what can you even do? Can a steward get involved? Frustrating.
    Unless this was a child, the ADULT rider should have spoken up and told the man to go shove it. Or at the very least, reported the unsportsmanlike behavior to the steward. (That action would be the same whether it was a pro or a fellow ammy.)

    Comment


    • #3
      I think, the trainer should have handled this on behalf of the client. However, many junior riders comfortable in schooling ring etiquette would have given the pro a mouthful in reply. If the rider was a younger child, let's just say I would have paid to watch a "pony mom" go postal on that rider.

      Comment


      • #4
        At one of our VERY local schooling shows last year, I was walking single-file on the rail, tracking left. In that posture an oncoming horse should pass me left-to-left, like cars. I was awaiting my turn to jump while a pro was schooing a horse. She came off a line and headed straight at me while approaching her next fence, screamed "RAIL" and thought I should somehow get off the rail in a split-second and make room for her. She ran head-on into us; my horse reared up like Trigger. And she then proceeded to scream at me!! I just kept my cool and said "You're wrong. You're just wrong". First of all she should stay on a bit of an inside track while jumping her course and leave waiting horses alone, on the rail. Second of all, I had the right of way on the rail in that direction anyhow. She still went ballistic. Third of all (and I told her all this very calmly) professionals have an obligation to watch out for amateurs and juniors. This experience resulted in my working with show management to create and publish "Schooling Rules" which are given to every coach when they check in at the show office, and posted ringside with the course patterns. There are no stewards at this kind of show but there is managment (who will not always take your side due to fear of pissing off a trainer that brings a big barn of entries to their shows, no matter how wrong they might be). So it needs to be done diplomatically, with Rules that are posted and apply to everyone.

        Comment


        • #5
          I watched my normally mild-mannered, easy going trainer go postal on a trainer that did this exact same thing to me in the warm up one day. I've got a pretty good mouth on me but was absolutely speechless while my trainer ripped this guy a new one. The trainer actually came over and apologized. That made me speechless all over again.

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by huntergal23 View Post
            If the rider was a younger child, let's just say I would have paid to watch a "pony mom" go postal on that rider.
            Love this . The rider was not a child, but I do agree with some of you that the trainer probably should have been the one to get involved in the situation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 222orchids View Post
              At one of our VERY local schooling shows last year, I was walking single-file on the rail, tracking left. In that posture an oncoming horse should pass me left-to-left, like cars. I was awaiting my turn to jump while a pro was schooing a horse. She came off a line and headed straight at me while approaching her next fence, screamed "RAIL" and thought I should somehow get off the rail in a split-second and make room for her. She ran head-on into us; my horse reared up like Trigger. And she then proceeded to scream at me!! I just kept my cool and said "You're wrong. You're just wrong". First of all she should stay on a bit of an inside track while jumping her course and leave waiting horses alone, on the rail. Second of all, I had the right of way on the rail in that direction anyhow. She still went ballistic. Third of all (and I told her all this very calmly) professionals have an obligation to watch out for amateurs and juniors. This experience resulted in my working with show management to create and publish "Schooling Rules" which are given to every coach when they check in at the show office, and posted ringside with the course patterns. There are no stewards at this kind of show but there is managment (who will not always take your side due to fear of pissing off a trainer that brings a big barn of entries to their shows, no matter how wrong they might be). So it needs to be done diplomatically, with Rules that are posted and apply to everyone.
              While it definitely sounds like the trainer should have stayed on the inside in this instance, it is common courtesy for those riders that are not working to give up the rail to those who are.
              My CANTER cutie Chip and IHSA shows!
              http://www.youtube.com/kheit86

              Comment


              • #8
                I am assuming nasty trainer was mounted. If not, maybe a little more grey, because you should probably do much more to avoid an unmounted human no matter how stupid they have been.

                Hate schooling in crowded rings. It is the only place I talk ugly to people. If I were that rider, I would have let the trainer have it. To answer your question, maybe say something supportive to the ammie rider? If if you are really sure of yourself, call the trainer out yourself.

                Like 222orchids, once I was in a schooling area, walking on the rail tracking left so that normal head on passing would have been left to left. Another rider, whom I since realize always defaults to "RAIL!!!!", was jumping and broke both rules.... had to have the outside track even though she was jumping and I was walking and had to have the outside track resulting in passing right to right. Some people are just "RAIL!!!" yellers.

                I have actually heard trainers shout at their students: "Don't worry about the other people, let them worry about you".
                Last edited by ToTheNines; May. 8, 2014, 04:47 PM.
                Rest in peace Claudius, we will miss you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
                  I have actually heard trainers shout at their students: "Don't worry about the other people, let them worry about you".
                  I hear this ALL THE TIME.

                  I also hate warm up rings more than anything, and thankfully am at the point where I need 1 oxer and 1 vertical before I go in the ring...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
                    Hate schooling in crowded rings. It is the only place I talk ugly to people. If I were that rider, I would have let the trainer have it. To answer your question, maybe say something supportive to the ammie rider? If if you are really sure of yourself, call the trainer out yourself.
                    There's nothing wrong with a loudly expressed "Phew, SOMEONE is snarky today!" or a "Don't worry hun, you were in the right spot!" called across the ring.

                    But I don't walk around in awe of pros, and have never been accused of not sticking up for myself, so, this is a process that might not work for everyone.

                    Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
                    Like 222orchids, once I was in a schooling area, walking on the rail tracking left so that normal head on passing would have been left to left. Another rider, whom I since realize always defaults to "RAIL!!!!", was jumping and broke both rules.... had to have the outside track even though she was jumping and I was walking and had to have the outside track resulting in passing right to right. Some people are just "RAIL!!!" yellers.
                    I am almost wondering if the left-to-left rule is not taught to everyone? It is VERY common in the dressage world, and the accepted "default" rule (unless someone calls inside/outside), but whenever I have explored other disciplines, it seems to be a mystery to people.

                    Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
                    I have actually heard trainers shout at their students: "Don't worry about the other people, let them worry about you".
                    This is a great generic rule for little ones on ponies. Adults should hopefully be a little more mature.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=222orchids;]
                      At one of our VERY local schooling shows last year, I was walking single-file on the rail, tracking left. In that posture an oncoming horse should pass me left-to-left, like cars. I was awaiting my turn to jump while a pro was schooing a horse. She came off a line and headed straight at me while approaching her next fence, screamed "RAIL" and thought I should somehow get off the rail in a split-second and make room for her. She ran head-on into us; my horse reared up like Trigger. And she then proceeded to scream at me!! I just kept my cool and said "You're wrong. You're just wrong". First of all she should stay on a bit of an inside track while jumping her course and leave waiting horses alone, on the rail. Second of all, I had the right of way on the rail in that direction anyhow. She still went ballistic. Third of all (and I told her all this very calmly) professionals have an obligation to watch out for amateurs and juniors. This experience resulted in my working with show management to create and publish "Schooling Rules" which are given to every coach when they check in at the show office, and posted ringside with the course patterns. There are no stewards at this kind of show but there is managment (who will not always take your side due to fear of pissing off a trainer that brings a big barn of entries to their shows, no matter how wrong they might be). So it needs to be done diplomatically, with Rules that are posted and apply to everyone.[\QUOTE]

                      Originally posted by To the MAX View Post
                      While it definitely sounds like the trainer should have stayed on the inside in this instance, it is common courtesy for those riders that are not working to give up the rail to those who are.
                      Agreed... I can't imagine why she'd want the outside track, cause eventually she'll have to find a way back to the inside track if she ever wants to jump anything, and it makes me wonder if she was specifically schooling the corners or something.... but yes, in my understanding it's left-to-left, but walkers yield to workers, and when someone's coming at you screaming RAIL it's best just to move out of their way
                      EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by huntergal23 View Post
                        I think, the trainer should have handled this on behalf of the client. However, many junior riders comfortable in schooling ring etiquette would have given the pro a mouthful in reply. If the rider was a younger child, let's just say I would have paid to watch a "pony mom" go postal on that rider.
                        Almost as good, I have a very vocal "horsey husband" that goes off on people in warm up rings when the others are dangerous/stupid/unobservant/rude, etc. Unfortunately, things like his happen all too often.

                        This all reminds me why I HATE the warmup rings. I get up as early as possible to be the first in the ring (and often only one) for warmups the day of my classes, then just find as quiet a place as I can before my class. Sometimes I hate showing because of warmup issues.
                        “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
                        ¯ Oscar Wilde

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Guess it's better than the people who don't say anything. One time I was standing halfway in front of a jump (out of 12 jumps in the ring) discussing my jumps with my trainer and a girl decided to pick the jump I was standing in front of to go over. She did not give the courtesy of "heads up!" Dead silent. Only reason I got out of the way is because my trainer was like "Crap, move!" and I trotted off in time, obviously saying under my breath "are you $(#*$ kidding me? Tell me if you're going to run into me, #&*!"

                          Another trainer in the ring right next to me decides to make a snide comment due to my statement. Either said trainer was looking just to berate someone, or it was the child's trainer who obviously thinks it's ok for everyone in the ring just to be on the look out for her client.

                          I hate warm up rings and schooling days. I am someone who gets stressy after too many close encounters and my horse also get his jimmies rustled after the umpteenth horse decides to get way too close for comfort (he will pin his ears and pop his butt up a little, but won't kick or strike out).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
                            I have actually heard trainers shout at their students: "Don't worry about the other people, let them worry about you".
                            This isn't bad advice for people who are either a)new to crowded rings, b)generally clueless, or c) really nervous about avoiding people. I'd much rather ride around someone then play the 'inside-outside-inside-outside-AAAHHHH' game with someone who's to busy trying to avoid everyone to actually get out of the way.
                            .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by karasha View Post
                              Another trainer in the ring right next to me decides to make a snide comment due to my statement. Either said trainer was looking just to berate someone, or it was the child's trainer who obviously thinks it's ok for everyone in the ring just to be on the look out for her client.
                              Meh. You and your trainer were hardly being courteous, either. Sounds like everyone in the ring was having a bad day and getting passive-aggressive at each other. If you hadn't parked in front of a jump and decided it was ok for everyone else in the ring to wait on your discussion with the trainer, your horse would never have been in that situation in the first place.

                              Sure warm-up rings are crazy, and you can't control what other people do, but you can make smart choices about what you do.
                              She Gets Lost

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Ignorant and selfish riding in the schooling ring is a HUGE reason I told the h&j world to go shove it. It amazed me after growing up on the backside, how blatantly ignorant people could be on horseback. People either did not realize or did not care, that horses WILL kick if you get to close, and that it is not everyone's job to look out for you.

                                One incident I remember clearly ended in one horse having to be put down because someone was too stupid to watch where they were going. I was not involved, but I was absolutely livid over the whole thing. There is no excuse for that.

                                The ammy in question AND his/her trainer should have yanked that "professional" off of his horse and dealt with him in the parking lot. Yes, I'm serious. There is NO excuse for that kind of crap.

                                "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by GoForAGallop View Post


                                  This is a great generic rule for little ones on ponies. Adults should hopefully be a little more mature.

                                  Oh god no. If trainers really tell their pony kids this, it explains so much. One time I had a little rotten brat try to ride her pony UNDERNEATH my jumper gelding. You bet I let her have it. That is a lesson she did NOT need to forget. She could have gotten me killed. Her trainer is lucky I didn't find him/her.

                                  "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by To the MAX View Post
                                    While it definitely sounds like the trainer should have stayed on the inside in this instance, it is common courtesy for those riders that are not working to give up the rail to those who are.
                                    This is (unfortunately) also up for debate. I was always taught this at my first barn (local level rated shows), but it never made sense to me. At the barn I'm at now and the shows we go too (AA shows), people walking have the rail. It works much better.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Just because you yell rail does not mean everyone has to bolt out of your way.... You could just yell rail right back at them..... the rule was always taught left shoulder to left. The rule about giving up the rail because you are walking has to do with others coming up behind you that are still working, while you are cooling down.
                                      Fullcirclefarmsc.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Halt Near X View Post
                                        Meh. You and your trainer were hardly being courteous, either. Sounds like everyone in the ring was having a bad day and getting passive-aggressive at each other. If you hadn't parked in front of a jump and decided it was ok for everyone else in the ring to wait on your discussion with the trainer, your horse would never have been in that situation in the first place.

                                        Sure warm-up rings are crazy, and you can't control what other people do, but you can make smart choices about what you do.
                                        All they have to do is go "heads up" and I move. We were discussing what I did and did not do in the last course we went over, and she was telling me the course to do next. The way the ring is set up, no matter where we were, we would have been in someone's way. That's the thing... you are always going to be in someone's way.

                                        It's up to all riders collectively, including myself, to make it clear to people where I am in the ring and if I am going to disrupt someone else doing something. I have had people park out in front of a jump and I go "Hey, mind if I jump this jump?" It's always greeted with a "Sure!", they move out of the way, and I go on my merry way. Everyone is happy. All I ask for is common courtesy of going "Hey, heads up, I'm coming your way." and I skedaddle. Not being courteous is going "Uh, no. I am standing here and I do not want to move." That's just being a pissypants.

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