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Lets talk about that green stuff......

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  • Lets talk about that green stuff......

    I know that my tank built QH will not take me to the level that I want to get to(though you never know she has a big heart to go with that big butt ) To get to the level that I want to ride I understand that I very will might go through multiple horses as I move up the levels/become a better rider. Unless I win the lotto I need to start saving now. This is where you guys come in .

    How much money would/should expect to spend on a 3 to 4(ish) yr old jumper that has been started and shows talent? Is 20,000ish is realistic or will I be laughed at by everyone?

    I know that with luck and a lot of searching and all of COTHer's help I might be able to find one uber cheap but I like to prepare for the worse and hope for the best.

    Thanks everyone for your time and effort in replying.
    ___________________

    "The root of all greatness is the Arabian." ~

  • #2
    Don't doubt the heart and ability of your QH- they are capable of much more than you think. I thought I had to have a huge warmblood to jump on, but I was wrong. My trusty QH proved he could do the job and take care of me

    That said, a lot depends on what height you are wanting to show at. I know of an excellent 3"0 jumper for sale right now for under $10,000, so your price range is actually pretty realistic, depending on height.

    For now, I would just say to stick with your mare for a little while. She might just surprise you! Just be careful not to overhorse yourself, and don't buy something above your ability Good luck!

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I don't think she will be able to jump over 3'6"....I'm not sure that I would want toeven if she could due to some small conformational issues. She has to work hard to get that bulldog chest over the jumps. Though this is the same mare that I thought would never be able to ribbon in a hunter schooling show...she got a second in the all day warmup with me against some pretty fancy horses and pros.
      ___________________

      "The root of all greatness is the Arabian." ~

      Comment


      • #4
        When I looked at baby horses (almost 4 years ago), I found that well-bred (warmblood), and unstarted but fancy 3 year olds were in the $20k range. If they were closer to 4 and had been started, the prices were typically between $25-30k. I am in the mid-Atlantic, so YMMV depending on location & breed preferences.
        "A canter is the cure for every evil."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by arab_roots View Post
          I don't think she will be able to jump over 3'6"....I'm not sure that I would want toeven if she could due to some small conformational issues. She has to work hard to get that bulldog chest over the jumps. Though this is the same mare that I thought would never be able to ribbon in a hunter schooling show...she got a second in the all day warmup with me against some pretty fancy horses and pros.
          But do you want to jump over 3"6? That's the question you have to find an answer to. I struggled with this for a long time. I wanted to do the 3"6' jumpers on a beautiful warmblood at A rated shows, and then I had to take a step back and look at reality. But if you have the drive and the courage to jump that high, go for it! However, I wouldn't go ahead and plan for a new horse until I was already comfortable jumping that height and absolutely knew I had exceeded my horse's capabilities.

          There are a ton of young, never raced OTTB's that have been started over fences. Their adoption fees can be as low as $500. There are also some great Appendix and QH jumpers out there, too. You can buy a really nice horse for $20,000, but if you're wanting to go above the 3"6' range they're going to get more expensive.


          What height are you jumping now? Maybe you could take some lessons on a warmblood over 4"0 fences and see how you like it. I found it to be very, very scary. 2"6' hunters and sometimes jumpers for me and my QH

          And I also take my QH in dressage, reining, and cutting. I can't believe I ever thought he wasn't good enough.

          It's really easy to get caught up in the flashy world of warmbloods and big fences, and I obsessed about it for a while, but I finally decided a safe and sweet horse mattered more, and that my sweet boy was perfectly good enough.

          Comment


          • #6
            Price point totally depends for what, exactly you are shopping. I just shopped for 3-5 year old jumper prospects, but my needs might be different than yours. Breed, athleticism, scope, conformation, location, size, and a million other factors all change price dramatically. If you can provide a bit more info...Are you wanting a Grand Prix prospect? Do you want something to do the A/O's?

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I am currently on a 9 month break from riding (in Afghanistan). I have jump 3'9" once on my old horse not the QH. I am looking into the future hence why I ask. I have a decent pay check but for a big purchase like that I will have to save, which is why I was asking how much it would cost. Honestly I don't care about the breed as long as we mesh together as a team and has ability to do atleast the High AOs.

              Right now I am content with my QH but am looking to the future.
              ___________________

              "The root of all greatness is the Arabian." ~

              Comment


              • #8
                Also don't settle on a warmblood and think you have to spend 20k for a low level jumper at that age. 20 will get you a started tb with way more potential than 20 will get you in the same age warmblood.
                Mendokuse

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by showidaho View Post
                  Price point totally depends for what, exactly you are shopping. I just shopped for 3-5 year old jumper prospects, but my needs might be different than yours. Breed, athleticism, scope, conformation, location, size, and a million other factors all change price dramatically. If you can provide a bit more info...Are you wanting a Grand Prix prospect? Do you want something to do the A/O's?
                  It would be nice to have a GP prospect but the AOs is a closer goal right now.
                  ___________________

                  "The root of all greatness is the Arabian." ~

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    "Off breeds" don't bother me. I have had a mustang, Spanish bred Arab, a couple of QHs, thoroughbred, and a 3/4 Arab Standardbred cross. Just like what is said about dogs...a good horse can't be a bad color or breed.
                    ___________________

                    "The root of all greatness is the Arabian." ~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by arab_roots View Post
                      It would be nice to have a GP prospect but the AOs is a closer goal right now.

                      You have jumped 3'9" once...so really ask yourself if you have the capability to bring along a horse that you expect to show in the high A/O's. I'm not saying you don't - but there is a bit of a disparity there. Do you have a trainer helping you? Have you thought about the additional cost to train and show one for the years it will take until it gets you to the level you want? Have you thought about the cost if the horse doesn't work out? It might be beneficial to lease a horse first and try the big jumpers before you make the leap to buying and making your own?

                      All of that said, if you want a serious 1.4-1.5m horse you can find one for your budget, people on this board have done it. Who is going to help you pick this horse? I had really amazing help from my trainer, but people tried to push loads of horses as Grand Prix prospects that made us laugh...then there were some horses that I liked and he didn't (he had great reasons that I hadn't considered)...so unless you have access to someone who can steer you in the right direction the likelihood that you will find a true A/O jumper prospect that you can train up yourself for $20K isn't very high.

                      Once you are finished in Afghanistan, are you in the states permanently? Will you have the stability in lifestyle and paycheck to adequately prepare a prospect?

                      Let me add: I don't want to be a downer...I read my post and it's not very encouraging, but I'm looking at the reality of it as I just went through the numbers and the process.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Another thing you may want to keep in mind, do you now, or will you in the future, have any plans of selling this horse? You are purchasing it as a prospect and down the road you might have a very nice horse on your hands that people would be very interested in. If you think you may want to resell, then you may want to consider more traditional breeds for the job that you want the horse to do. I'm not discrediting any of the other breeds that have been suggested or implying that they cannot do the high A/Os, but I'm simply saying you may have an easier time reselling a warmblood or TB than you might a mustang or other breed of horse.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by showidaho View Post
                          You have jumped 3'9" once...so really ask yourself if you have the capability to bring along a horse that you expect to show in the high A/O's.
                          I think this is a common conundrum but also one that is often rectified fairly easily by finding a young horse with talent. There's a three foot rider who is barely getting around by the skin of her teeth and a three foot rider who has been limited to that height due to her lack of access to suitable horses and has developed a lot of skills at the lower heights. I'm going to assume for the purpose of this discussion that the OP is the latter.

                          Assuming she has a great trainer who she can work hand-in-hand with I think the OP can bring along a young horse and get to the AOs. It's not quite as easy as jumping on a made horse but tons of ammies have done it. Whether 20k will get her that prospect is, IMO, the real question. In my area it likely would not. What it might get is a janky retraining prospect (probably a cracked out TB - and I mean this lovingly, I love a good TB but when they're fried they're fried), which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. I think it is much harder to restart a horse than make up a clean slate but...I've seen that work out as well.

                          From what I've heard from a few friends, it seems pretty likely that you could import something that's been well started and could get you there for 40-50 but I have absolutely no personal experience with this.
                          Originally posted by BAC
                          I don't think FF's post was rude (not this one at least).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by showidaho View Post
                            Two things:
                            You have jumped 3'9" once...so really ask yourself if you have the capability to bring along a horse that you expect to show in the high A/O's. I'm not saying you don't - but there is a bit of a disparity there. Do you have a trainer helping you? Have you thought about the additional cost to train and show one for the years it will take until it gets you to the level you want? Have you thought about the cost if the horse doesn't work out? It might be beneficial to lease a horse first and try the big jumpers before you make the leap to buying and making your own?

                            All of that said, if you want a serious 1.4-1.5m horse you can find one for your budget, people on this board have done it. Who is going to help you pick this horse? I had really amazing help from my trainer, but people tried to push loads of horses as Grand Prix prospects that made us laugh...then there were some horses that I liked and he didn't (he had great reasons that I hadn't considered)...so unless you have access to someone who can steer you in the right direction the likelihood that you will find a true A/O jumper prospect that you can train up yourself for $20K isn't very high.
                            This.

                            My plan is to get my hands on a really solid Adult packer, maybe even get lucky enough to get something to play around in the Modifieds or 1.20 ring. Ideally this would be a lease on something older to make it a bit for affordable, but I'm planning on spending a good 20-25K on a horse approaching these specs (if that's even possible).

                            Once I get my feet wet and am a bit more comfortable, I'll be looking for my prospect - hopefully a young bred-to-the-hilt WB, although a nice young TB may be the first try. Unfortunately those cheaper off breeds are definitely going to be your hit and misses - sure there are those with talent, but how many are you going to be willing to take through the levels only to find they're maybe High Adult/Modified horses? Working your way up the price ranges by buying and selling into each bracket is definitely one way to do it, starting with nicer material each time. Just depends how much time you are willing to invest.

                            As far as the warmblood market, in utero foals to weanlings are going to range you from about 7.5-15k. Then they seem to disappear and you find them again as 4 year olds who are now 25k+ depending on how much potential they appear to have. Your best option there would be to just keep an eye out for oddball happenings - fire sales, dispersals, that sort of thing. Because the people who have GP quality horses tend to know what they have and price them accordingly.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by showidaho View Post
                              You have jumped 3'9" once...so really ask yourself if you have the capability to bring along a horse that you expect to show in the high A/O's. I'm not saying you don't - but there is a bit of a disparity there. Do you have a trainer helping you? Have you thought about the additional cost to train and show one for the years it will take until it gets you to the level you want? Have you thought about the cost if the horse doesn't work out? It might be beneficial to lease a horse first and try the big jumpers before you make the leap to buying and making your own?

                              All of that said, if you want a serious 1.4-1.5m horse you can find one for your budget, people on this board have done it. Who is going to help you pick this horse? I had really amazing help from my trainer, but people tried to push loads of horses as Grand Prix prospects that made us laugh...then there were some horses that I liked and he didn't (he had great reasons that I hadn't considered)...so unless you have access to someone who can steer you in the right direction the likelihood that you will find a true A/O jumper prospect that you can train up yourself for $20K isn't very high.

                              Once you are finished in Afghanistan, are you in the states permanently? Will you have the stability in lifestyle and paycheck to adequately prepare a prospect?

                              Let me add: I don't want to be a downer...I read my post and it's not very encouraging, but I'm looking at the reality of it as I just went through the numbers and the process.
                              Showidaho:
                              You are right I don't have a lot of experience at any really significant height. I have started horses before but have never taken one to any significant level. I found a good trainer in CO that I know can help me and my horse along. I personally don't have the knowledge to jump consistently at that level...hell I have never even shown at that level. I have people that would be able to help me find a horse. Right now I will be in CO for atleast 2 more years unless I get the assignment that I want then I would move sooner. I will have no debt when I return back to the states. I won't be rich lol but I make enough to be able to show some what. I appreciate your thoughts...I remember reading your thread in the Sporthorse Breeding section.

                              Nycequestrian:
                              Well the ultimate end state is to be able to do the 1.5m. I am aware that I may and probably will have to sell my rides to be able to afford the next one. I understand that Warmbloods and TBs have a better resale value than a pintaloosaabian, but if the horse has the ability and the record to back it up I feel that I would be able to sell it.

                              French Fry:
                              You are correct in the assumption with me having experience at the lower levels and lack the horse flesh to go higher. I would prefer to get a horse to bring along than retraining. I currently don't have much ability to retrain but am some what knowledge able to bring a young horse along. All of the horses that I have owned they were very green. French Fry could you give me a general area where you are located?

                              I am still content with my current horse and am not getting rid of her anytime soon. This is more of a 2-5 year plan and wanted to figure out how much money I would need to bring to the table to purchase said horse. Unless the Army starts handing out 30,000 dollar bonuses again I will have to save which is making this a long term plan. I would love to get a horse that has the experience, but most of them are well out of my budget.

                              I would also prefer to have a North American/ US bred horse rather than importing. The only thing that I can get from importing that I can't get in the states is a show record at a slightly more reasonable price.

                              Ok if 20,000 is too low what am I looking at having to save up?
                              ___________________

                              "The root of all greatness is the Arabian." ~

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I'd be happy to PM you the videos and info about the jumper prospect I bought and the others that are for sale, if you want to put some prices with horses to give yourself an idea. Just shoot me a PM and I'll get you started.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by arab_roots View Post
                                  "Off breeds" don't bother me. I have had a mustang, Spanish bred Arab, a couple of QHs, thoroughbred, and a 3/4 Arab Standardbred cross. Just like what is said about dogs...a good horse can't be a bad color or breed.

                                  What's an 'OFF Breed' ?

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    By off breed I am talking about nontraditional (non warmblood, TB) breeds competing in the higher levels of jumpers.
                                    ___________________

                                    "The root of all greatness is the Arabian." ~

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by french fry View Post
                                      Assuming she has a great trainer who she can work hand-in-hand with I think the OP can bring along a young horse and get to the AOs. It's not quite as easy as jumping on a made horse but tons of ammies have done it.
                                      Wow, you must know a lot of very fine amateur riders and live in an amazing area. I don't know a single amateur who has bought a 3 or 4 year old prospect for $20k and turned it into a 1.50m horse. A horse that can be competitive jumping around a 1.50m course is a very special animal. An amateur who is good enough to find this creature and then develop it to its potential is either someone good enough to be a (good) pro, has tons of time, tons of money, or some combination of all of those. I don't think I even know any amateurs competing at 1.40m and above who don't have multiple horses and ride a lot and show a lot.

                                      What I do think is do-able for a number of amateurs, with the help of a good trainer, is to find a young horse for $20k and end up with a 1.20m or maybe a 1.30m horse. However, I think you have to have a good eye for horses and get a little bit lucky. Then the sale of this horse could help finance the next step up horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        20,000 will not buy a 1.50m prospect and honestly, I really doubt it's going to buy you a horse that can do the A/O's. You never know, but I think a better plan would be to lease/buy an adult jumper and learn at that height first.

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