• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

I've Got a Lovely Bunch of Snaffle Bits...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I've Got a Lovely Bunch of Snaffle Bits...

    There they are, a-sitting in a box. Big ones, small ones...you get it. In case you didn't here's the reference...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx5p2kjphf8

    But anyway! So many bits. Which one to choose? Basically I've narrowed it down to a full cheek slow twist, a plain snaffle, a single twisted wire, and a Baucher. Normally we use Baucher for dressage, and kimberwick for jumping. But since a kimberwick is unconventional in USEF, I need to switch bits.

    My horse is very, very soft; likes to carry his head low and go slow and steady. Sometimes he can get a little excited (head tossing, fussy, tough to turn) when jumping, so I do need a bit with a little extra something for that.

    A couple weeks ago, I tried him in the single twisted wire, which was great; took him to a small schooling show in it and all was well BUT I think at a bigger show with more going on it would be too mild. I'm leaning towards the full cheek slow twist with french link (even found bit keepers for it!), but I'm still a little on the fence. Could I use the full cheek with bit guards as well to help get him used to the cheek bars at first?


    I know ultimately I have to find what works and make the decision, but you guys are so helpful. Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    If a single twisted wire is too mild I would not describe your horse as very very soft mouthed, personally. Nor do I think any of the other solutions you proposed are a step up from that. Nor are bit guards acceptable for a hunter, or useful with a full cheek. But anyway.

    I would suggest you get a Tom Thumb Pelham, two reins and take some lessons with a trainer who can teach you how to use it. That is your "can't use a kimberwick but need leverage" acceptable option for USEF.

    Comment


    • #3
      Agree with fordtraktor. A twisted wire snaffle is considered very severe and should never, in my opinion, be used unless the rider is very experienced and has soft, educated hands.

      Second the suggestion of the Tom Thumb pelham.
      I heard a neigh. Oh, such a brisk and melodious neigh as that was! My very heart leaped with delight at the sound. --Nathaniel Hawthorne

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah I was going to suggest a pelham as well, or maybe a slow twist dr. bristol if you think he may not like the nutcracker action. And yes I did get the reference
        Mendokuse

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by chestnuthunter View Post
          There they are, a-sitting in a box. Big ones, small ones...you get it. In case you didn't here's the reference...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx5p2kjphf8

          But anyway! So many bits. Which one to choose? Basically I've narrowed it down to a full cheek slow twist, a plain snaffle, a single twisted wire, and a Baucher. Normally we use Baucher for dressage, and kimberwick for jumping. But since a kimberwick is unconventional in USEF, I need to switch bits.

          My horse is very, very soft; likes to carry his head low and go slow and steady. Sometimes he can get a little excited (head tossing, fussy, tough to turn) when jumping, so I do need a bit with a little extra something for that.

          A couple weeks ago, I tried him in the single twisted wire, which was great; took him to a small schooling show in it and all was well BUT I think at a bigger show with more going on it would be too mild. I'm leaning towards the full cheek slow twist with french link (even found bit keepers for it!), but I'm still a little on the fence. Could I use the full cheek with bit guards as well to help get him used to the cheek bars at first?


          I know ultimately I have to find what works and make the decision, but you guys are so helpful. Thanks in advance!
          It is possible he is fussy with the wire because it is too severe a bit in his mouth. I know that my horse acted like I was torturing him when I tried a slow twist as an experiment while trying to find a hunter-legal bit. What ultimately worked for him was a two-piece snaffle with rollers on the bars. I think he likes playing with the rollers - my horse is a very mouthy beast. lol!

          Are you looking for hunters or jumpers. If hunters, why don't you try a pelham? That will give you the little bit of extra curb when you need it, with a nice snaffle feel the rest of the time? And since you use a boucher for dressage, the stability of the bit will be very familiar to him. I'd start with a mullen pelham and see if he likes that, then try a three piece if that doesn't work.

          Comment


          • #6
            I personally am not a huge fan of the twisted wire bits. I had one for my horse and he just ran right through it and it didn't bother him at all. I ended up using a different type of bit entirely (instead of going to a more severe wire bit), and that worked a lot better.

            Best of luck in your bit search!

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I have always been under the impression that a single twisted wire is not a severe bit....With no leverage, and only one wire, I don't entirely understand how it can be that harsh.

              A pelham is an option, but I'm not sure I'm advanced enough to use two reins yet. He goes fine in a snaffle, and honestly I need to start riding him with more contact. I tend to ride in a strong bit with loose reins and little contact, rather than constant contact with a milder bit.

              He is soft in the mouth, and absolutely will listen (with his head and neck) to any bit, even a rubber snaffle. The problem is when he gives in to the bit with his mouth and ignores it with his body. He will tuck his head to his chest and keep on keeping on whatever he's doing. So it's not necessarily a stronger bit I need, but i feel like the full cheek will give me a little more control in the turns and keep him from falling in.

              I would like to have something that will work for hunters and jumpers. However, he goes beautifully in a mechanical hackamore, so I will probably keep that for the jumpers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by chestnuthunter View Post
                A pelham is an option, but I'm not sure I'm advanced enough to use two reins yet. He goes fine in a snaffle, and honestly I need to start riding him with more contact. I tend to ride in a strong bit with loose reins and little contact, rather than constant contact with a milder bit.

                He is soft in the mouth, and absolutely will listen (with his head and neck) to any bit, even a rubber snaffle. The problem is when he gives in to the bit with his mouth and ignores it with his body. He will tuck his head to his chest and keep on keeping on whatever he's doing. So it's not necessarily a stronger bit I need, but i feel like the full cheek will give me a little more control in the turns and keep him from falling in.
                It really does sound like a nice mullen mouth pelham will give you what you are looking for - the ability to get his attention and lift him up off your hands without being a strong bit that he will fight against. It's not that hard to learn two reins - use them for a week and you'll have the feel down. You can use a bit connector temporarily to see if you like the basic feel of the bit and his responses to it, then refine your two rein technique over a few rides.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The single twisted wire is considered severe because of it's texture and diameter. The thinner the bit, the more severe it is because it "concentrates" the pressure. Think of putting a pen in your mouth and pulling back, vs putting fishing wire in your mouth and pulling back. Which would hurt worse? Kind of like the fatness of a thicker snaffle vs the thinness of a twisted wire.

                  If he will listen to a rubber snaffle like you mention and curl like that, maybe a pelham isn't the best option. Since you are doing the jumpers and you say he goes best in a hackamore, that sounds like a great option. Seems to be good for horses that avoid the bit (above or below). If you want to try an actual bit, try a loose ring french link. I say loose ring because there is no "fixed" side, so the ring slips through when you make contact or when they do, so IMO it makes for a steadier contact for those horses that are a little reluctant.
                  Originally posted by rustbreeches
                  [George Morris] doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My thought was that a Mullen Pelham would let him have gentle contact that won't pinch but will also allow the op to firmly get the horse's attention, break the horse up when he tries to grab/evade the bit on a course, then quickly release the pressure and go back to a more mild connection as soon as he gives. .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by chestnuthunter View Post
                      I have always been under the impression that a single twisted wire is not a severe bit....With no leverage, and only one wire, I don't entirely understand how it can be that harsh.

                      A pelham is an option, but I'm not sure I'm advanced enough to use two reins yet. He goes fine in a snaffle, and honestly I need to start riding him with more contact. I tend to ride in a strong bit with loose reins and little contact, rather than constant contact with a milder bit.

                      He is soft in the mouth, and absolutely will listen (with his head and neck) to any bit, even a rubber snaffle. The problem is when he gives in to the bit with his mouth and ignores it with his body. He will tuck his head to his chest and keep on keeping on whatever he's doing. So it's not necessarily a stronger bit I need, but i feel like the full cheek will give me a little more control in the turns and keep him from falling in.

                      I would like to have something that will work for hunters and jumpers. However, he goes beautifully in a mechanical hackamore, so I will probably keep that for the jumpers.
                      It doesn't sound like a bit issue at all. It sounds like some flat lessons are in order so you can learn to ride his body with your body - and he can learn how to respond. A single twisted wire is harsh. He may be ducking his head to get away from it. I'd put him in a D ring French link (or bean) snaffle, take a few lessons, and see where you are.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-re...affle-bit.aspx
                        I heard a neigh. Oh, such a brisk and melodious neigh as that was! My very heart leaped with delight at the sound. --Nathaniel Hawthorne

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Ok, that makes sense. I've grown up in a world of reiners and AQHA hunters, where twisted snaffle are the "baby bits" you put on strong 4 year-olds before they move up to a correction bit.

                          USEF hunters/jumpers are new to me, so I'm still learning lots! Maybe I could use a mullen mouth pelham on the flat to get the feel of two reins and use my mechanical hackamore for the jumpers? I feel like I can manage the two reins (I am a decent flat rider), but I don't think I would be ready over fences yet, where I still grab mane sometimes. I'm basically down to that, or maybe the full cheek with a french link.

                          And PS, my Latin III teacher yelled at me when she looked at my laptop when I wasn't paying attention

                          "What on earth is a mullen mouth pelham and why are looking at it during my class? Sciens Latinam omnia vincit!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chestnuthunter View Post
                            And PS, my Latin III teacher yelled at me when she looked at my laptop when I wasn't paying attention

                            "What on earth is a mullen mouth pelham and why are looking at it during my class? Sciens Latinam omnia vincit!"
                            Ha! If you were in Geneva and taking Spanish, that would have been my sister-in-law!
                            www.ayliprod.com
                            Equine Photography in the Northeast

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ccoronios View Post
                              Ha! If you were in Geneva and taking Spanish, that would have been my sister-in-law!

                              Lol! I get yelled at so often for looking at horse stuff in class. They should have thought of that before they gave us all MacBook Pros!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Its not the bit, its you. Sorry. A bit isn't the answer, and probably will make it worse. Try to get a thick oval mouth snaffle or a plastic bit.

                                If he gets strong? then halt or walk. It VERY EASY to fix as long as you are constant. You are letting him be strong and pull.

                                You actually do want a "feel" of the reins though, you don't want to feel nothing. That is not going to be correct.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by cuatx55 View Post
                                  Its not the bit, its you. Sorry. A bit isn't the answer, and probably will make it worse. Try to get a thick oval mouth snaffle or a plastic bit.

                                  If he gets strong? then halt or walk. It VERY EASY to fix as long as you are constant. You are letting him be strong and pull.

                                  You actually do want a "feel" of the reins though, you don't want to feel nothing. That is not going to be correct.
                                  .....there isn't really a problem, though. All I need is a bit that can replace my kimberwick, I don't need to "fix" anything. He isn't strong, he never pulls me or rushes anything. He will go nicely in almost any bit, I'm just looking for the right one- not stronger. His only issue is lowering his head and curling under- not pulling.

                                  I think you misunderstood the question.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Sometimes he can get a little excited (head tossing, fussy, tough to turn) when jumping, so I do need a bit with a little extra something for that.

                                    A couple weeks ago, I tried him in the single twisted wire, which was great; took him to a small schooling show in it and all was well BUT I think at a bigger show with more going on it would be too mild.
                                    I think people are reading that to mean he gets strong and pulls.

                                    Besides...curling under is an evasion which isn't really "going nicely". I think it's worth at least trying a softer bit (like the french link with a bean someone else suggested).
                                    The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
                                    Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Get back to class! Ask horsey questions after school.

                                      Good luck in your search. BTW I used a Pelham on my horse that over flexed. It was the best I could find with him.
                                      “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
                                      ¯ Oscar Wilde

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by analise View Post
                                        I think people are reading that to mean he gets strong and pulls.

                                        Besides...curling under is an evasion which isn't really "going nicely". I think it's worth at least trying a softer bit (like the french link with a bean someone else suggested).

                                        Sorry for any misunderstanding! The fussing is not "being strong" as it is with most horses.

                                        The curling under happens so rarely, and almost every time it's because he's nervous. (Rail classes when other horses are close to him and passing him). I feel like I'm misrepresenting what I'm looking for. I think a softer bit would be best, so still leaning toward full cheek.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X