• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Proposed Rule Change - Martingales

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Proposed Rule Change - Martingales

    How NICE to see that there is the possibility of a running martingale being considered standard hunter tack again! Way to go USHJA.

    https://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/513-13.pdf
    Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles

  • #2
    Oh wow! I'm not old enough to have been around when running martingales were used in the hunter ring, so out of curiosity--why were they determined at some point to be unconventional if they were OK originally?
    Originally posted by rustbreeches
    [George Morris] doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis

    Comment


    • #3
      "Standing and running martingales used in the conventional manner are allowed for all over fences classes." I would love to see a definition of "conventional manner" that excluded leaning on a standing martingale every step of the way.
      madeline
      * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

      Comment


      • #4
        OK? Back in the old days, for Corinthian (Formal attire, appointments classes) only running martingales were allowed...
        madeline
        * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not sure why a running wouldn't be considered unconventional since for it to even work, the horse has to be pulling his head up.
          Mendokuse

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hunterrider23 View Post
            I'm not sure why a running wouldn't be considered unconventional since for it to even work, the horse has to be pulling his head up.
            Same is true for the standing.

            Most horses seem to hit the standing when they land off a fence, which should not happen with a running martingale.
            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

            Comment


            • #7
              How would this affect the equitation divisions? Currently there is no specification for which type of martingale is to be used (EQ109.2 just says that "martingales" are allowed over fences) except for the USET and the Washington Jumper Phase which both mandate a running. Does this mean that running martingales have been permitted all along in equitation classes over fences and are just unused because they would be considered unconventional for a hunter class per HU125, so that, if the rule passes, we might see horses wearing them in the Maclay?
              "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

              Amy's Stuff - Rustic chic and country linens and decor
              Support my mom! She's gotta finance her retirement horse somehow.

              Comment


              • #8
                Many horses that I saw in the Maclay were hitting the standing every stride...
                madeline
                * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hunterrider23 View Post
                  I'm not sure why a running wouldn't be considered unconventional since for it to even work, the horse has to be pulling his head up.
                  Actually, the running martingale was once much more common than the standing for serious hunters and jumpers. It's actually more "conventional" in that respect. I took a long break from the horse world and was very surprised to find when I returned that the standing martingale is now considered standard equipment for hunters and eq. horses. I believe many European riders are astonished that American riders think nothing of jumping 3'6' courses with a standing martingale--many of them consider it unsafe.
                  I heard a neigh. Oh, such a brisk and melodious neigh as that was! My very heart leaped with delight at the sound. --Nathaniel Hawthorne

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A hunter, by definition, should move with a long, low frame with a daisy cutting stride. This is incompatable with a running martingale, the purpose of which is to change the action of the bit onto the bars from the corner of the lips. A running martingale is an additional form of brakes. Nothing advertises "I can't stop" better than a running martingale. There will be hunters who go around their course in a proper frame with their running martingale properly looped. But even seeing one on a horse advertises that the horse's brakes are not secure.
                    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
                    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

                    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kryswyn View Post
                      A hunter, by definition, should move with a long, low frame with a daisy cutting stride. This is incompatable with a running martingale, the purpose of which is to change the action of the bit onto the bars from the corner of the lips. A running martingale is an additional form of brakes. Nothing advertises "I can't stop" better than a running martingale. There will be hunters who go around their course in a proper frame with their running martingale properly looped. But even seeing one on a horse advertises that the horse's brakes are not secure.
                      I am confused. Exactly what message does a standing martingale adjusted so that it is under constant tension give? I realize that on a perfectly manicured surface there is little need for a horse to be able to recover from a stumble, but I would really like to know that a horse could use his head and neck if necessary.
                      madeline
                      * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kryswyn View Post
                        A hunter, by definition, should move with a long, low frame with a daisy cutting stride. This is incompatable with a running martingale, the purpose of which is to change the action of the bit onto the bars from the corner of the lips. A running martingale is an additional form of brakes. Nothing advertises "I can't stop" better than a running martingale. There will be hunters who go around their course in a proper frame with their running martingale properly looped. But even seeing one on a horse advertises that the horse's brakes are not secure.
                        If the hunter is going in a long, low frame, that should be perfectly compatible with a properly fitted running martingale. It shouldn't come into play unless the horse raises its head too high.

                        Somehow I doubt that nearly every grand prix rider "can't stop".

                        Does a standing martingale on a hunter advertise that the horse flips its head?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Over here it is very rare to see someone ride in a standing martingale and they are not allowed in competition. However a running martingale is very common and (I wouldn't be sure of the figures) I'd guess 80% of horses wear them as standard kit rather than for any particular reason. Of course they can't be used in dressage or in showing (on the flat no jumping).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am 43 and it is news to me that running martingales used to be commonplace in the hunters - I never recall seeing them when I was showing as a kid (granted, I didn't show at the really big shows). But now that I think about GM's "good old days" photos, a lot of them had running martingales. It would be tough for me to get used to that look though.

                            I would like to know if an "unconventional" snaffle includes the ones with the little rings to hold cheek pieces and reins in place and give you some leverage?

                            And they are pretty vague as to what an illegal noseband is - would a crank be illegal or legal?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think that in the hunters they ought to do away with them altogether.

                              Really.

                              I swear some of the horses don't need them, people just slap them on to complete some sort of imaginary "look".

                              I'm with Wofford, they only need them as a young horse til they stop thinking that head up is an evasion.

                              Comes off as soon as that evasion stops.

                              But I'm a dinosaur, what do I know?


                              I shudder to think of some of these poor horses in some of the o/f classes. Bad enough hands without compounding it with a running martingale. It will be ugly. Really ugly.

                              Besides, with all the "crest release" posers, it'll just be flopping around over fences anyway.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Madeline View Post
                                Many horses that I saw in the Maclay were hitting the standing every stride...
                                Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb,
                                F O.B
                                Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                                Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Every time I see a thread about standing martingales and the hunters, I am reminded of this passage from Jane Marshall Dillon:

                                  "Naturally, anyone knew that a standing martingale, tying the horse's head down, was just a clear admission that the rider had rough hands and didn't know how to school!"
                                  "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                  ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Madeline View Post
                                    I am confused. Exactly what message does a standing martingale adjusted so that it is under constant tension give? I realize that on a perfectly manicured surface there is little need for a horse to be able to recover from a stumble, but I would really like to know that a horse could use his head and neck if necessary.
                                    A standing martingale's purpose is to keep the horse from raising his head and avoiding the bit. Correctly adjusted it does just that; loose until the horse raises his head when it becomes taught.

                                    Currently in the hunter ring, usually adjusted incorrectly, it serves a secondary purpose of allowing the horse to balance on it, keeping himself in a frame.

                                    Judges know when martingales are too tight, and they can also see if the horse's head and neck are being restricted.

                                    Also, in the hunter ring, a standing martingale is part of the look. You can tell those because they are adjusted correctly and there's always a loop and they are never stretched taut. Those horses have had better training.
                                    Last edited by Kryswyn; Nov. 10, 2013, 04:05 PM.
                                    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
                                    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

                                    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I agree with Kryswyn, judges aren't stupid, they know their stuff, they can tell if a standing is adjusted correctly.
                                      Both of my horses wear them, on one of them it is purely aesthetic, his neck is a bit long and the martingale helps to break it up and make a prettier picture. The other one is young and on occasion will land from a big effort, and throw his head up with a little squeal. I would much rather have him hit the end of a standing so the pressure is applied through the noseband, then have the running come into effect and apply pressure through the bit.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Years ago, standing martingales were considered unsafe at higher fences, at least in Africa and the UK. Hunting in England, I saw lots of running martingales but no standing martingales because a horse might need the use of its head and neck after a fence when jumping into deep ground. I hate the standing martingales on hunters. My old hunter wore one for the "look" (trainer pick, not mine) and the new one did when he was young for the purpose of a standing: to help him stay low to the fences. He doesn't wear one now.
                                        kenyagirl

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X