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Junior hunter riders in pony hunters

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  • Junior hunter riders in pony hunters

    Rules prevent riding in Children's hunters if you compete in Junior hunters, but do not prevent Junior hunter riders from competing in ponies.

    Does anyone understand the logic behind this?

    To be completely upfront this thread is generated because of the success of Junior hunter riders at pony finals. I admire Reed Kessler, Lillie Keenum, Victoria Colvin and others that have stopped showing in ponies when they entered the Junior hunter ring. Many of these stopped at an age when they could have continued to show in multiple pony divisions.

  • #2
    Rules for children's cross over are zone dependent. Here in Zone 7 the same horse/rider combo may not cross children's and juniors, but the same rider can show in children's and juniors as long as it's different horses.

    Children's (and children's ponies) are not nationally rated, so each zone can make their own rules.

    I have no problems with junior hunter rides showing in ponies. Pony divisions are national divisions and are meant to be competitive. Those riders make it more competitive. If someone wants to bow out for their own sportsmanship purposes, then that's fine but otherwise, go for it.

    By that same token, if I have a green horse I have no problems doing the modified adult hunters, but typically don't do the eq b/c it's bad form.
    Last edited by Nickelodian; Aug. 15, 2013, 06:04 PM.
    My adventures as a working rider

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    • #3
      Agree with above poster. Those pony divisions are nationally rated and are competitive. I don't think someone should be forbid to show in the juniors and ponies if they are so blessed to fit on ponies and horses. I think the age restriction on the different heights of ponies is enough to keep it fair.
      There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the
      inside of a man.

      -Sir Winston Churchill

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      • #4
        Junior hunters are to regular pony divisions as childrens hunters are to childrens hunter ponies. The regular ponies and the junior hunters are both the pinnacle of the junior (lower case j) hunter animals heights.

        And proportionally, the pony fence heights are actually higher. The junior hunters are 6" higher, but the horses are usually more than 6" taller.

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        • #5
          What bothers me more are the kids who ride in ponies and the Jr. Jumpers. If you can ride a 1.30-1.40 course, it's time to come off the ponies IMHO
          Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
          My equine soulmate
          Mischief Managed (Tully)- JC Priceless Jewel 2002 TB Gelding

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          • #6
            Two years ago a now retired pony jock in your list was doing ponies and Grand Prix in Vermont shamelessly.

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree with the other posters that pony hunters are a higher level than the children's. They are indeed the highest level of hunters for that height category. They should be competitive. Pony hunters are a world apart from a short stirrup division. When a child competes in "the division" for the first time, they are stepping up into "the big time" competing in a national division, IMO. The age restrictions do keep older riders out of the small and medium divisions that have the younger kids. Most junior riders are content to move beyond the pony divisions once they are showing in the junior hunters, big eq, or junior jumpers as they no longer want to be part of the pigtail set. However, those more experienced riders are often sent into the pony ring not on their own personal mounts but on catch rides that they are ultimately preparing for other children. Unlike horses, a great pony hunter can't be completely made up by a pro. It needs a talented pony jock to give it a confident ride in the show ring so that it can instill confidence in a more novice child rider later down the road and take care of that child when the time comes. This is all part of the process and I, for one, have no problem with it. Just my opinion. I think at that level of competition it's not a situation of robbing candy from a baby. Leadline or short stirrup, yes. But by the time a rider gets to the pony divisions, she/he should be mature enough and understand competition enough to know that you don't always win.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by westie55 View Post
                I agree with the other posters that pony hunters are a higher level than the children's. They are indeed the highest level of hunters for that height category. They should be competitive. Pony hunters are a world apart from a short stirrup division. When a child competes in "the division" for the first time, they are stepping up into "the big time" competing in a national division, IMO. The age restrictions do keep older riders out of the small and medium divisions that have the younger kids. Most junior riders are content to move beyond the pony divisions once they are showing in the junior hunters, big eq, or junior jumpers as they no longer want to be part of the pigtail set. However, those more experienced riders are often sent into the pony ring not on their own personal mounts but on catch rides that they are ultimately preparing for other children. Unlike horses, a great pony hunter can't be completely made up by a pro. It needs a talented pony jock to give it a confident ride in the show ring so that it can instill confidence in a more novice child rider later down the road and take care of that child when the time comes. This is all part of the process and I, for one, have no problem with it. Just my opinion. I think at that level of competition it's not a situation of robbing candy from a baby. Leadline or short stirrup, yes. But by the time a rider gets to the pony divisions, she/he should be mature enough and understand competition enough to know that you don't always win.
                I agree. The rated pony divisions are national level classes intended to showcase the PONIES themselves. They are equal to the Junior hunters (and other rated hunter divisions) in every way. The top pony riders are the best of the best young riders. So as long as those riders meet the age eligibility requirements for each section (which are strict) and they are a suitable size for their mounts, I don't think they should be restricted any further. The rated pony divisions are highly competitive and are the "highest level" of competition for those animals. The ponies (and their owners) deserve to have the best young riders possible. Children who need to be in a "protected" division to gain more riding experience and/or confidence should be in the non-rated Children's divisions.

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                • #9
                  also, considering the high money that comes attached to these ponies, a trainer or breeder needs the best possible rider they can find when they are marketing their stock.
                  _\\]
                  -- * > hoopoe
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                  • #10
                    Stepping down a division just to get a ribbon is always annoying even when it's legal. However, I agree ponies offer their own challenges and the pony/jump height ratio evens it up a bit. Usually when a 3'6" rider is in the ponies it's for a good reason: catch riding for a trainer with a sale pony, rider has nothing else to ride at that show and is grateful to show in any division, pony needs a more experienced rider so that owner is being helped out (I've been there with my daughter's pony whom we fondly called Fat Bastard). And I've seen lots of great riders who jump higher crash through a fence on a pony, get bucked off, or slide off the back end when pony stands up and waves at the air. I respect anyone who rides and shows any kind of equine, basically, as long as it within the rules

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                    • #11
                      It was my understanding that you couldn't compete in the ponies and anything above 3'6" at the same show. This is usually enough to discourage someone doing the junior jumpers and ponies. No idea how someone did a GP and ponies?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by leyla25 View Post
                        Two years ago a now retired pony jock in your list was doing ponies and Grand Prix in Vermont shamelessly.
                        Here is the link for the results in Vermont in 2011. If the above happened the results with show it.
                        http://www.vt-summerfestival.com/res...er-special.php

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PonyPenny View Post
                          Here is the link for the results in Vermont in 2011. If the above happened the results with show it.
                          http://www.vt-summerfestival.com/res...er-special.php
                          According to this, none of the 3 even competed?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SSacky View Post
                            According to this, none of the 3 even competed?
                            PonyPenny got both the wrong year and the wrong week of the horse show... but with that being said, the only results I found for the child in question had her showing junior hunters and in the GP, so maybe she shouldn't get dragged through the mud.

                            Then again, I don't think any child should be getting dragged through the mud by adults, but that seems to be really popular on this forum these days...?
                            http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
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                            • #15
                              Um....what's up with calling out kids lately (not the OP but others)?

                              Is this adults having riding envy against kids? Geez people. There are plenty of adult pros who have crap to be called out on (see the Incentive thread etc), but sticking it to kids? You've got problems.
                              Come to the dark side, we have cookies

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                              • #16
                                If I remember correctly, the over 3'6" rule does not apply for green pony hunters, although I can understand that a green pony might need a more experienced ride.

                                I personally don't have an issue with kids show in the juniors and pony hunters. Look at Daisy Farrish, she's still young and small enough to show in the small pony hunters but is also competing in the big eq and juniors. I think it is nice kids have a chance to still be competitive in a division and have the opportunity to show in a division that might challenge them a little more. I wish I had had the opportunity to still show ponies while adjusting to a horse!
                                Oh Sweetheart
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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by supershorty628 View Post
                                  PonyPenny got both the wrong year and the wrong week of the horse show... but with that being said, the only results I found for the child in question had her showing junior hunters and in the GP, so maybe she shouldn't get dragged through the mud.

                                  Then again, I don't think any child should be getting dragged through the mud by adults, but that seems to be really popular on this forum these days...?
                                  you said two years ago, which would be 2011. The link I sent comes up to the first week of Vermont, however at the the link also has all the weeks for 2011. It is really not that hard to navigate the website.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    You are ignoring the business side of the show world. A lot of what happens in the Pony rings is to sell ponies. A pony with points for indoors is always worth more than one not. From a parent point of view, campaigning a pony hunter is an expensive proposition and the money may be better spent in the jr hunter/eq rings. But trainers may have an investment pony to show, or a pony just may need a couple of good shows to qualify. Ultimately, it can come down to how many mounts the child can handle in a day.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      The child mentioned who did the GP and ponies in VT was 13 at the time, showing ponies not owned by herself who needed a good show record in order to be sold for more money... Her job is to show them, I doubt she was doing ponies in order to steal as many ribbons as she could.
                                      Now, the 17 year olds who are consistently doing well in 1.40+ but still insist on keeping their own pony (ie - not influenced by owners) well past the point of getting a good show record is something I don't like.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by iEquitate View Post
                                        The child mentioned who did the GP and ponies in VT was 13 at the time, showing ponies not owned by herself who needed a good show record in order to be sold for more money... Her job is to show them, I doubt she was doing ponies in order to steal as many ribbons as she could.
                                        Now, the 17 year olds who are consistently doing well in 1.40+ but still insist on keeping their own pony (ie - not influenced by owners) well past the point of getting a good show record is something I don't like.
                                        Yeah I can think of a few... Including one who recently commented that she didn't show at pony finals this year because she was too big, but is getting jodhs to show again. If you're so big that you have to buy jods to feign being younger, it's probably time for you to move on and let other talent have a chance to get known.
                                        Mendokuse

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