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Let's Talk Money: Price of a Top Hunter

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  • #81
    Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
    Pathetic comments.

    Also research your hero Paul Newman who was very generous. But he was also an auto racing enthusiast who owned and raced cars. Auto racing is one of the few sports that is more expensive than horses. Just think of the difference he could have made if he had not raced cars and given that amount of money to charity.
    And his daughter had some pretty nice horses when she showed as a junior.

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    • #82
      I knew a nice 3'6 hunter with a history of doing the High A/Os and a few GPs with good results who sold for $750,000. I know of at least 5 more who were decent but not mind-blowing 3'6 hunters that sold for 250-350k.

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      • #83
        Originally posted by Silk View Post
        not the pro rider, certainly actually, the new owner. again, I saw the tweet but do not know for absolute certainty that it was authentic. i should not have said anything, but it was NOT the pro rider or anyone associated with him.
        I have a hard time believing that DS would of tweeted the cost of Rumba.

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        • #84
          If I had the money to purchase the over 6 figure horse.......you bet your tighty whities I would! Why begrudge others just because you can't afford to do that. I've sat on one of those horses (just once) and it was NOT the easy peasy ride people think. You had to be able to find the fence, support and not drop your hands yet have a light touch. Do any of these not to the horses fancy and you were NOT going over that fence!! I'm sure many are more ammie friendly, but I'd bet my last dollar a lot are not.

          Plus after seeing the fences at Spruce Meadows, no way in holy hell would I want to gallop on down to them.......that take cajones $$ just can't buy
          Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

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          • #85
            Never said only the rich win and most families are not generous.


            No reason to start hurling bombs and calling another person's comment pathetic.
            Why not have a civil discussion?

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            • #86
              and furthermore Paul Newman was not my hero, he was my lust object.

              Comment


              • #87
                Hunter prices seem out of hand due to the large commissions that can be pulled in. It seems a horse's price is more determined by the budget of the client and not the actual value of the horse. This is not to say that a high price tag can't be justified, I just have been sensing this trend of people asking way too much for a horse simply because the person looking can afford that price tag and is putting their faith in their agent.

                For example, I recently observed a girl at my barn (good rider at 3ft, scored in 80s at last horse show) trying 2 horses who were priced at $100,000++ for the 3ft. The first one got super heavy on the forehand, stride got longer and longer, leading to many missed distances. The other one was an easier ride to the jumps but she could not get a leadchange to save her life. These horses had average show records and were not hack winner quality.

                Call me crazy but for $100,000 for a child's 3footer it should be a somewhat straightforward ride, decent mover, and have a leadchange.

                It's also worth mentioning that price doesn't matter if you don't jive with the horse. A $500,000 horse you don't enjoy riding or can't find the jumps on is not worth the money. I've seen top hunters who clean up in Wellington who were bought for $0 or $1mil. At the end of the day, it's the partnership that matters most so a quality horse can reach it's potential in HunterLand.

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by Cannonball View Post
                  Pathetic comments.

                  Research a little about Dr. Betsee Parker' generosity. Or about Tori Colvin who is one of the best riders in the country and not near the wealthiest. Or explain the success of Maddy Darst who's mother is a very successful trainer but not near "the richest". Or the girl who's family purchased a pony prospect with $30,000 which was most of their savings; They trained it for 2 years and took it to Pony Finals and won; Then leased it out to recoup some of their expenses. Or the girl who started catch riding and earner a trip to Devon on her catch ride. Or the girl who won at pony finals on a catch ride. Or the family who sold their successful Junior Hunter when the daughter went to college and gave the money to Colic research. The examples go on and on.

                  But go ahead and keep believing "the richest rider wins". It might be a convenient excuse.

                  Also research your hero Paul Newman who was very generous. But he was also an auto racing enthusiast who owned and raced cars. Auto racing is one of the few sports that is more expensive than horses. Just think of the difference he could have made if he had not raced cars and given that amount of money to charity.

                  Yes our sport is expensive but the assumptions that only the rich win and most of these rich families are not generous are just fantasies you've created.

                  As a side note if you own a home and 2 cars you are considered part of the wealthiest 5% of people on the planet.



                  My hubby races cars and I have horses and I enjoy being at the competitions. It's great to see all the spin off work created by those that race or ride. So many people employed and equipment purchased.

                  Some negatively judge business owners and people that do what they love that costs a lot of money; but the reality is they employ people and do so much for our economy. The more you make the more taxes you pay.
                  Live in the sunshine.
                  Swim in the sea.
                  Drink the wild air.

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by doublesstable View Post
                    The more you make the more taxes you pay.
                    Unfortunately, it doesn't always work like that...

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by JumpsJumps View Post
                      Hunter prices seem out of hand due to the large commissions that can be pulled in. It seems a horse's price is more determined by the budget of the client and not the actual value of the horse. This is not to say that a high price tag can't be justified, I just have been sensing this trend of people asking way too much for a horse simply because the person looking can afford that price tag and is putting their faith in their agent.

                      For example, I recently observed a girl at my barn (good rider at 3ft, scored in 80s at last horse show) trying 2 horses who were priced at $100,000++ for the 3ft. The first one got super heavy on the forehand, stride got longer and longer, leading to many missed distances. The other one was an easier ride to the jumps but she could not get a leadchange to save her life. These horses had average show records and were not hack winner quality.

                      Call me crazy but for $100,000 for a child's 3footer it should be a somewhat straightforward ride, decent mover, and have a leadchange.

                      It's also worth mentioning that price doesn't matter if you don't jive with the horse. A $500,000 horse you don't enjoy riding or can't find the jumps on is not worth the money. I've seen top hunters who clean up in Wellington who were bought for $0 or $1mil. At the end of the day, it's the partnership that matters most so a quality horse can reach it's potential in HunterLand.
                      You're not paying for a guarantee that your kid can ride it. The fancier it is the less likely it's easy to ride. A child coming off a less quality horse is going to have a lot of missed distances and lead changes before she learns how to pilot the next model up.

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                      • #91
                        Originally posted by CBoylen View Post
                        The fancier it is the less likely it's easy to ride.
                        I agree, but these were not the "step up" type or fancy mounts. There's definitely something to be said for paying for a horse you can move up on, which is why I said a high price tag can be justified.

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by Tha Ridge View Post
                          Unfortunately, it doesn't always work like that...

                          Yeah, on the income tax front I must be doing something wrong.. some of the most wealthy have great financial direction. I would call it pushing the envelope

                          But when you purchase equipment, employ people and buy fuel you are paying the same tax as the next guy. If you employ more people and buy more equipment, fuel etc. you are essentially paying more taxes.

                          Shop away
                          Live in the sunshine.
                          Swim in the sea.
                          Drink the wild air.

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                          • #93
                            If I had unlimited money and the horse were a good option for me I would absolutely buy an expensive horse! (Dressage, in my case.) I would love to be able to afford a quality GP schoolmaster and the training to keep it going well while I learned. If I had the kind of money which basically becomes unlimited I would search for GP horses at whatever price range looking for the one who matched me - and if it were a horse who needed injections and had little work time left, I would happily fund its retirement, but if it were a big name horse who worked for me to ride, I would spend money on that, too. Maybe letting the trainer use it to make a team if that were a possibility, though....
                            Originally posted by Silverbridge
                            If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

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                            • #94
                              If 1M were the same as 10k to me, sure, I'd purchase the high dollar pony or a few ponies.
                              I don't agree that someone could have better spent their money by giving it to charity instead of spending it on what they choose to. ?? There is nothing wrong with pouring money into a sport if you can afford to.
                              Proud to have two Takaupa Gold line POAs!
                              Takaupas Top Gold
                              Gifts Black Gold Knight

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                              • #95
                                I don't know that I'd want to buy an already 'made' top horse. Part of the fun to me is the challenge of finding the good young horse with lots of potential and then being a part of the journey to success. And not sure that would happen for me regardless of how much money I had to invest, because I probably would not be able to find a trainer willing to work with an owner as 'hands on' as I would be.
                                Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
                                Witherun Farm
                                http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/

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                                • #96
                                  It also seems like prices are inflated because commisions are made on lease fees, which are usually about 30% of the purchase value of the horse - for a one year lease. For even the least savey individual, this is a great way for the owner and the trainer to make money. Therefore, the higher the price, the higher the lease fee, year after year after year.
                                  The truth is always in the middle.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by Trevelyan96 View Post
                                    I don't know that I'd want to buy an already 'made' top horse. Part of the fun to me is the challenge of finding the good young horse with lots of potential and then being a part of the journey to success. And not sure that would happen for me regardless of how much money I had to invest, because I probably would not be able to find a trainer willing to work with an owner as 'hands on' as I would be.
                                    This how I feel. I am not interested in being the owner that watches, I WANT to do the training myself. I have always trained my own horses, including breeding and training from scratch.

                                    I do have a couple of very good trainers I can take lessons from though. I also would be training horses in different disciplines as I enjoy (competitively) Dressage, eventing, driving, and jumpers. Not really into hunters except to give a horse miles at local shows.

                                    As for purchase price, well TBs are my first choice of breed and if I was in a position to get more horses, since I would want green to bring along myself, I could easily fill the trailer at the track for a reasonable price. I have ridden WBs, including homebreds, and definitely prefer a good TB.


                                    Christa

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                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by jody jaffe View Post
                                      and furthermore Paul Newman was not my hero, he was my lust object.
                                      Oh yeah.

                                      All I need to be happy is a small farmette with a barn and two horses. One for me and a second for either Paul Newman or Yul Brynner.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Horses in the Hunters and Jumpers are now commonly "brokered" and put into escrow as like they were real estate these days.

                                        In California, the top hunters are well into the top 6 figures. Top jumpers of course into 7 figures.

                                        Any normal income person leases or finds a way to get their kid into a working student program to afford it.

                                        It's really gotten out of the realm of the majority of people now.

                                        If you are lucky to find a talented TB (which so many get overlooked) or a WB that has not been "promoted" or discovered yet, you are very lucky. It can still be done, and is really the way to get into the sport for a regular working individual or family.
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                                        Fine Art Paintings, Horses, Dogs, Wildlife and anything else that inspires.

                                        New convert to the cow horse world.. love my QH mare.

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                                        • Originally posted by jody jaffe View Post
                                          I'm not judging, just disagreeing.

                                          Some are philanthropic (and some that are philanthropic are because it helps them out tax wise, but lets not get into a discussion about altruism), but I wouldn't say usually unless I saw all their tax returns. I think the uber generous Paul Newmans of the world are not the rule.

                                          To me this discussion is a sad reminder of where our sport has gone and supports the notion that Richest Rider Wins.
                                          Originally posted by jody jaffe View Post
                                          Never said only the rich win and most families are not generous.


                                          No reason to start hurling bombs and calling another person's comment pathetic.
                                          Why not have a civil discussion?
                                          I thought they were pathetic. Maybe you didn't say exactly what you meant, but read your comments.

                                          Sounds like "wealth envy".

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