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Proposed rule chng-jumpers leaving out strides

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  • Proposed rule chng-jumpers leaving out strides

    Have I read it correctly on the USA EQ site that a proposed rule change for Childrens,Adults and Pony jumpers is elimination if they leave out a stride on a combination? I saw that and couldn't believe it but on consideration I suppose it is logical- first optimum time and next required striding. Makes it sound awfully like a hunter round without the pretty.

    (Of course, I just got back from a show where they had "Very Low" jumpers. They had 17 h. warmbloods and small ponies going around the same course of fences that looked about 2'6". And some of them were very very scary...even in optimum time rounds.)
  • Original Poster

    #2
    Have I read it correctly on the USA EQ site that a proposed rule change for Childrens,Adults and Pony jumpers is elimination if they leave out a stride on a combination? I saw that and couldn't believe it but on consideration I suppose it is logical- first optimum time and next required striding. Makes it sound awfully like a hunter round without the pretty.

    (Of course, I just got back from a show where they had "Very Low" jumpers. They had 17 h. warmbloods and small ponies going around the same course of fences that looked about 2'6". And some of them were very very scary...even in optimum time rounds.)

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, I believe it was Joe Dotoli who proposed this change.

      Remember - the rule change proposal process is available to anyone (or I should say any member in good standing) who wishes to fill out the proper form and submit it by the deadline for consideration.

      Having seen many Scary Jumper classes similar to the one you describe... I can't say I am opposed to this particular rule change proposal. The way I read it, it does not dictate the number of strides throughout the course - just specifies that there must be the normal striding for in and outs.

      "It's a funny thing about life: If you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it." ---W. Somerset Maugham
      \"It\'s a funny thing about life: If you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it.\" ---W. Somerset Maugham

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      • #4

        There are jumper judges who have enough trouble trying to get their current jobs right ..now they'll have to learn what "leaving out a stride" means.
        What if it's unintentional? What determines unintentional? If a kid is told by the trainer to gallop down and leave out a stride, but ride out the gate [after a winning ride] tearfully exclaiming "boo hoo I got run away with..." is a judge gonna let that one slide?
        Hmmm. I agree there are some bad rides in the kiddie classes, but there are a whole lotta crappy jumper judges that have enough trouble paying attention (god bless the good judges ) and there are a whole lotta trainers who are gonna mess with this rule.
        Ah. It'll probably pass.
        Great. Now you gotta do the card, do the timers, do the stopwatch, make sure the course is set, look for the number on the pad somewhere (only to find out 9 trips later the kid wore the wrong number), and now count strides.

        Comment


        • #5
          when you say combination, do you mean a one/2 stride?? if you do~ then i understand that idea... it could prevent a lot of accidents happening~ my horse bounced a 1 stride in child/adults a few shows ago and YES IT WAS SCARY~ but it wasnt intentional, he just has a HUGE stride!! and he did manage to make it through it clear! but what about a 4 stride, putting 3 strides in?? if you can add why cant you take out? some horses lope easily down them taking out strides, and it would cause a rail if they were to hold them back too much...make since?? maybe you are just talking about the 1/2 stride combos though??
          also, isnt the whole idea behind jumpers kind of that the rider/trainer tries to decide new ways of doing things to outwit the next?? should they be able to do this any way they like?

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          • #6
            I don't think the issue of whether it is intentional or not should factor in... it is no different (for judging purposes) than stops or run outs, (which by definition are ALL unintentional ) which can also cause elimination.

            "It's a funny thing about life: If you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it." ---W. Somerset Maugham

            \"It\'s a funny thing about life: If you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it.\" ---W. Somerset Maugham

            Comment


            • #7
              HMMM, yea that's a little odd. So are they going to start posting the strides now? In jumper classes they usually let you walk the course to determine what strides your going to do. SO, I guess I just don't get it LOL. Are you allowed to leave out strides in the JUMP-OFF? Or can you not leave out strides in both rounds. I'M LOST HELP!!

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              • #8
                Go read the rule change proposal.

                It refers to the striding in combinations only. So the track for the course is still up to the rider, and you can still do the inside turns etc.

                "It's a funny thing about life: If you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it." ---W. Somerset Maugham

                \"It\'s a funny thing about life: If you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it.\" ---W. Somerset Maugham

                Comment


                • #9
                  Like Liverpool says, anybody can propose a rule change on just about anything. Unless it is an Extraordinary Rule Change, they all go through the same process.

                  It will get debated and discussed in the committees that have an interest in the subject (in this case, that will be at least the jumper committee and the safety committee, probably several others), and then it will be discussed in the General Rules Change forums at the Annual Meeting. Then the Board of Directors will consider it and decide whether to adopt it or not.

                  I can understand where Joe Dotoli is coming from. He's very concerned with safety (he is the primary architect of the junior helmet rule), and I'm guessing he's tired of seeing kids and amateurs run around the jumpers leaving strides out and sometimes landing in the middle of an oxer because of it. So, it's a very legitimate concern. The only question is whether this rule change is the way to address it or not.

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  Till you feed us, right and wrong can wait.
                  Bertolt Brecht (and every horse)
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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ohhhhhhhh i get the whole combo thing!! its for a 3 to a 2 stride ect thing!! haha~ just took me a minute!

                    PONY PICS!!
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                    • #11
                      I think it is a great idea! It would cut down on the nuts who don't know how to ride a jumper course and think it is all about flying around as fast as possible. REALITY CHECK: YOU ARE GOING TO KILL YOURSELVES DOING THAT! If you are forced to be more in control, it will make the jumper ring a much safer place to be. Do you really think you can win a Grand Prix by running around flat out? I don't think so!

                      A majority of major accidents happen in combinations when they are going way to fast. This rule will make accidents much less likely and I support it all the way!

                      Just because you aren't crazy, doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to win a lower level jumper class.

                      ~*~Nattie~*~
                      http://community.webshots.com/user/nattie2006

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't know, I show in the Children's and I believe the rule would be hard to enforce, but as long as it contained to combinations and not lines and broken lines then I think I could tolerate it. Though I can say I haven't seen very many people getting one in the two strides.

                        Amanda
                        "Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I dont see the point..how many people intentionally leave out strides in combos that make it dangerous? Making it illegal isn't going to stop it- it happens when people lose control or make bad desicisons, and people that do that will probably make enough mistakes elsewhere to eliminate them from the ribbons anyway. Seems like a pretty stupid rule to me. Leave the stride counting to hunter judges.

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                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Need definitions.

                            What is the "correct" number of strides for each distance?

                            What if a (stupid or malicious) course designer sets a combination at 30 feet? Is it a one stride or a two stride? Will you be penalized for doing it in one stride?

                            Janet
                            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
                            Janet

                            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sounds silly to me... the people who make combinations dangerous by leaving out strides do so because they don't think while on course. No silly rules are going to have the least effect on that.
                              So since it can't really serve its intended purpose, seems to me that it would just make the thinking people fit into the same cookie-cutter rounds that a hunter does... Heck, if my horse can safely leave out a stride in a combination and it correctly lines me up for wherever I'm heading him next, then I'm gonna do it. If not, I won't... Those that can't make that decision probably aren't going to stop and ponder a new rule as they approach a combo...
                              Also, along the same lines as what Janet said... seems like it might limit the creativity and trickiness of the course designer... Jumper course are designed to make you figure those things out on your own...

                              TXJumper- where was this 2'6 jumper class... maybe we were at the same place...

                              Saw 'Em Off...

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I think it would be hard to enforce in the pony jumpers...many of the ponies have horse strides so when they dont get the pony strides they would be eliminated...? Doesn't sound fair to me...

                                I think it would be just as efficient to get faults for leaving out a stride because people would no longer be doing it intentionally, but if it were to happen by mistake you wouldn't be eliminated.

                                dunno...just a thought..

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                                • #17
                                  I think it's a great idea. I've seen too many bounced one strides in the childrens/adults - it's terrifying to see! I don't think intentional/unintentional should be a factor though.
                                  "A goal without a plan is just a wish."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    It sounds like a good idea to me...especially after having been on my greenie weenie and accidentally bouncing a one-stride

                                    I can see where people would disagree, though. I have never shown jumpers, but my old trainer is a jumping instructor...she teaches safety first, and in spite of that, the jumpers still seem a bit intimidating to me!

                                    My guess is that this rule is to help eliminate the scray rounds we've all witnessed, which help to increase the level of safety...especially for us Adult riders!

                                    I know it goes against the grain of jumpers to have to count strides...but isn't that what you're supposed to be doing anyway? I know not in the way the hunters do, but more for the technicality of the ride?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      UHHHHHHH jumpers classes have judges?! Is this all they do? Guess they better make coffee a priority in that arena!

                                      "Anger is the only thing that won't go away by losing it." - Jack Nicholson in Anger Management

                                      ---They all laughed at me when I said warmbloods would make good hunters. But I knew! ---

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                                      • #20
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm guessing he's tired of seeing kids and amateurs run around the jumpers leaving strides out and sometimes landing in the middle of an oxer because of it. So, it's a very legitimate concern. The only question is whether this rule change is the way to address it or not.
                                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Personally, and I'm sure I will get flamed for this, I think landing in the middle of an oxer addresses it better than this rule change.
                                        I thought the point of jumpers was to know your horse's capabilites and your own and take best advantage of it. Whether that means leaving strides out or adding them or taking the big turn or the tight one.
                                        Otherwise, it's a hunter class.


                                        BarbB

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