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Thoughts on hunters with color???

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  • Thoughts on hunters with color???

    My trainer and I have been toying with the idea of breeding my bay TB mare. My trainer knows of a very flashy palomino quarter horse stallion that moves well and is built nicely for a hunter and thinks he would be a great match for my mare. Being that my mare is a bay and the stallion is a palomino, there's a high chance that the foal would be buckskin. I have no problem with a buckskin baby, but what about as a hunter??!! Is it good to stand out in the field of bay hunters?? Or too extreme for mainstream hunter judges? (Think: paints and appys aren't favorites in the hunters)

    Background: mare and I currently show in the 3ft at schooling and smaller rated shows. Baby would be a hunter prospect for me to keep, not necessarily to sell.

  • #2
    Well, what do YOU want? If you're not excited about buckskin, yourself, I wouldn't go this way.

    I like 'em, personally, and I'm especially a fan of buckskin Connemaras. I think a good trip is a good trip.

    But, is this Quarter Horse a horse that has competed in open hunter classes, or even AQHA hunter classes? Was he successful?

    If not, and you're breeding for a hunter, I wouldn't choose him. If you want a Quarter Horse cross, there are many wonderful Quarter Horses out there who have been successful as hunters, where you can evaluate their jump and suitability directly. If you want a hunter, I would find a stallion who has produced quality hunters (of whatever breed).

    I would not breed to the horse because he is nearby, or because he is palomino. Those would only be bonuses if he happened to meet my other criteria.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


    • #3
      I love 'em. I showed a paint in the children's for part of the summer as a sale horse for my trainer last year and we did remarkably well. color and flash is a good thing if you want to stand out but not if you're kind of middle of the pack.
      My Horse Show Photography/ Blog


      • Original Poster

        I personally love buckskins, very fond of a buckskin german riding pony that showed at Pony Finals with my trainer. I guess that just answers my question since he got respectable scores for the trips he layed down


        • #5
          I show a buckskin quarter pony in the hunters/jumpers/EQ. He has a wonderful stride and a very nice pace when asked. He does all his changes and is quite the mover. He can go from crazy jumper horse, to relaxed calm hunter horse almost instantly. I think it just depends on taste. Some classes we're judge favorites, and some not so much. It's all on your preference. I wouldn't trade my pony for anything.


          • #6
            If it's a good horse, it's a good color.


            • #7
              By the way, a palomino or chestnut, or even black offspring is also possible with this cross, depending upon the genotype of the mare and stallion.
              If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


              • #8
                Move to jumpers, where it's based on ability and this nonsense wouldn't matter one bit.


                • #9
                  Actually, you only have about a 25% chance the foal would be buckskin (unless your mare doesn't have the chestnut gene). You could get a chestnut, a bay, or a palomino. Black is also possible, but is very slight.


                  • #10
                    WHY does your trainer think you should breed her??? IMO, dont do it. Its risky to mare, you can't ride the offspring until 2016 IF you do it now, its expensive, stuff happens. what's the point.

                    If you want to start a young one, go buy one that's a three year old
                    We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........


                    • #11
                      I successfully showed in my competitive local series on my little red roan appy pony. We skipped out on the flat classes most of the time as she just wasn't the greatest mover but was lovely over fences. Even the fancy judges they flew in from Wellington placed her reserve. In my experience if the horse is doing the job the way it's supposed to it's going to do well.


                      • #12
                        If I were breeding for a hunter, I would expect a LOT more from the stallion than "moves well" and "built nicely for a hunter." Color aside, these are not adequate credentials for breeding for a hunter.

                        I have nothing against the breed or color, but I would insist on a horse with a performance background (or at least some level of proven aptitude) in the discipline I was breeding for.

                        FYI, with regards to color, the pony divisions look a bit different than the adult hunter divisions. A buckskin would be much more unusual in the adult hunter divisions. That having been said, I wouldn't worry too much about bias based on color, I wouldn't think it a major concern. At more competitive shows, a quarter horse type might be penalized, and a buckskin color in a horse does advertise a high likelihood of QH heritage. I like QHs, but I have also found that some are a little shorter strided at the canter and that is an issue to be careful about.


                        • #13
                          Sorry to sound crabby, but irresponsible breeding leading to horse overpopulation has made me that way. I show an app, so I feel qualified to address your main question. I find it fun to show a colored horse, but you will stand out. Your mistakes will stand out more.

                          As far as breeding, if you want a buckskin, go find the nicest baby bred by others that you can. It is not that easy to get a nice baby, and IMO the breeders who carefully breed for hunters get the best prospects. Good mind, good mover, good jump, and pretty too? The odds are against you.
                          Rest in peace Claudius, we will miss you.


                          • #14
                            Do you want to breed for a good Hunter? Or do you want a colored horse that can also be a Hunter? Which is most important to you?

                            The color part is a non issue, regardless of what it is, IF the horse is actually able to move long and low, has the step and the style and expression over fences that is rewarded. If it lacks step, quality of movement and style/expression of a jump? It won't pin well...of course some blame the color and not the fact the horse is just not built to do the job as well as others. more convenient.

                            IME, the QHs also bred for color, particularly Palomino, are not out of lines known for sweeping strides or particularly good form over fences. Fact many are more Halter, WP like in build and step with a shoulder and hip suitable for the needs of that discipline, not the big step of a Hunter or even a Jumper off the very lowest levels. They take a soft, pitty pat step not a ground grabbing, powerful stride.

                            I fear you stand a good chance of getting a pain old bay harkening back to what that QH carries genetically, a build for something else, not jumping. Just another failed mating that disappoints and another grade horse not good enough for Open competition off the lowest levels and not eligible to show in breed shows.

                            With the money it will take to breed, do all the vet work, birth the baby and aftercare, 3 years before you can even seriously start evaluating it as a Hunter-that on top of the gestation period???

                            Why don't you just buy something that you KNOW will be a desired color AND make a Hunter.
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                            • #15
                              While "I LOVE COLOR " a good horse is a good horse even a purple one ~

                              While " I LOVE COLOR !" ````

                              A good horse is a good horse ~!~

                              Breed the best mare to the best stallion (for that particular mare) ~ regardless if the best stallion is
                              purple ! or orange !~!
                              Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "


                              • #16
                                Yes, it is definitely cheaper and less risky to just go out and buy a nice foal/weanling/yearling than to breed your own. Why not continue to enjoy your mare and look for a baby to purchase?


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by MHM View Post
                                  If it's a good horse, it's a good color.
                                  Exactly. I have a horse of color. It's a pinto. He's awesome. Like AA show hunter awesome. Like Hunter Derby awesome. Judges LOVE him because he's a GREAT hunter. I love his color but would rather have someone stick hot pokers in my eyeballs than listen to someone refer to him as a paint. That drives me NUTS!!!
                                  Originally posted by EquineImagined
                                  My subconscious is a wretched insufferable beotch.


                                  • #18
                                    I would want a lot of background on the offspring of this stallion. What are his babies doing? How well do they move? There is a misconception that judges don't like colored horses in the hunter ring and I think that this is for the most part untrue. (I've heard stories about someone who heard a judge claim they don't pin pintos/paints but this was always at a local level)

                                    If the horse is a flashy mover and jumper AND colored, you're going to REALLY stand out. But if he's just an okay mover and hangs a knee here and there, the color is going to make him stand out for the wrong reasons.

                                    Also, you realize the gestation period of a horse, correct? Breeding means you wouldn't have a horse to compete with for well over a year. If she's your only horse and you want to lesson and show over the next year I'd consider buying a greenie or you could even buy an in-utero or foal. What makes your mare primed for breeding? What aspects do you want to improve in her? Are you willing to take on all the costs assumed with breeding and bringing along a baby? I think these are all questions you need to ask yourself and your trainer before you consider breeding. Color should not be high up on your list of questions needing answers before you jump into this.


                                    • #19
                                      If you really want a buckskin, ditto what's been said. There are a few really nice buckskin warmbloods I've seen around here.

                                      My geriatric father LOVES buckskins. Found a mare that was the right age, right color, registered even. She's crazy as a bed bug and crippled without shoes. But he likes to pet her when he's feeding the hard keeper. My dad's mare is the result of some people breeding for color... Gotta say I ain't really looking forward to feeding her when he no longer can...God knows no one in their right mind would want to buy her. If you decide to breed your mare, IMO just about everything else about a horse is more important than color. Good luck whatever you decide to do.


                                      • #20
                                        I'm one who prefers "traditional" hunter colors, but I do agree a good horse is a good horse regardless of coloring. That said, in looking to breed my mare, a good friend has a palomino WB stud that I think is really nice, he has a gorgous front end (movement and jump) and lope-y, consistent canter that I find desireable. But he was quite chicken in his early years and I'm also not crazy about his hind end which his babies all seem to possess (no idea what the moms are like). So, even though I would've been on the fence about ending up with a buckskin, the hind end and the spook factor were much more important for me. He may have been cheaper to book, but instead I went with a different stud who is more money. I hope it pays off in the long run!
                                        Last edited by Equino; May. 12, 2013, 04:46 AM.