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Thoughts on this TB pedigree

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  • Thoughts on this TB pedigree

    Looking into a horse with this pedigree as my next hunter. Any input would be appreciated...


  • #2
    Is it built like a hunter? The Tapits I have seen photos of all look very upright and straight.


    • Original Poster

      From what I can tell he is but I do not have an conformation shots at this point, only at the trot and o/f. He is built like a tank. Looks more like a warmblood than a Tb.

      I don't know much about his lines and his trainer seems to think he is very well bred so I'm wondering for what since racing wasn't his thing.

      Any idea if these lines produce good movers or nice jumpers and if they tend to hold up well over time? Obviously a pedigree only tells you so much but I am curious.


      • #4
        It's not hard to find the actual horse you're discussing based on that pedigree, and he doesn't look WB in his race photos that's for sure.

        Nothing in his pedigree screams sporthorse to me, but others may know better.
        Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
        you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.


        • #5
          If he does not jump yet, its really hard to assess quality and style over fences which is the heart of Hunter judging-some look great and jump like a sack of cement.

          Can he do a balanced canter yet? That is the best way to judge-pedigrees are only an indication of speed and hint at trainability and attitude not so much a predictor of future show Hunter success.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


          • #6
            Well, I've heard good things about In Reality, Fappiano, and Tom Fool.
            I haven't heard much about Secretariat but I had a Secretariat granddaughter who was just gorgeous.. perfect conformation and she would jump anything I pointed her at. Just lovely.

            But ultimately it comes down to the horse in front of you. Not the bloodlines.


            • #7
              Unbridled was known for producing difficult personalities, I have also seen his offspring described as "fragile." You may want to post this in the racing forum though, they would know more.

              Is it actually a hypothetical foal, or a real foal? Was he raced? If he raced, did he finish all his races (ever have to be pulled up or vanned off?), were there long gaps where he may have been recovering from an injury?


              • #8
                From what my pedigree friends in the Thoroughbred industry say, Tapits are notoriously high-strung and difficult to work with. Beautiful horses, but not the best minds apparently. I'd base your decision off more than bloodlines though!


                • #9
                  Kentucky Derby winner Orb is from an AP Indy-Unbridled cross, not that that says much about his prospects as a hunter or for long-term soundness.

                  I love my AP Indy grandson, who is now in training to be a hunter. He's got a wonderful mind and a great jump. He is out of a dam who is from a Mr. Prospector line. He's also solidly built and I'm thinking when he's fully filled out (he's 4) he's going to have more of a "warmblood" look.

                  But as others have said pedigree is only going to tell you so much about the horse on the ground, particularly if it's a gelding. As it looks like it's been almost two years since he's raced, he should be far enough along in his retraining that you can get a good idea about temperament, movement, and jump. And a good PPE should give you some idea about how well he will hold up.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wonderland9 View Post
                    From what my pedigree friends in the Thoroughbred industry say, Tapits are notoriously high-strung and difficult to work with. Beautiful horses, but not the best minds apparently. I'd base your decision off more than bloodlines though!
                    I agree... and have dealt with a few that had bad attitudes, but every horse is different.


                    • #11
                      I met Unbridled when he was racing, he had no temperament issues. I've known several of his offspring (including Xcntrygirl's, Lad, who is a saint!) and not one has "issues." The Unbridleds Song offspring are notoriously fragile but that's on the track, not as hunters.

                      As for Tapit, a few months ago I happened upon one on a mid Atlantic trainer's site. He was quite huntery, lovely gaits and a super jump. Tapit (via Pulpit, Indy, Slew etc) traces tail male to Bold Ruler. First I'd consider the animal in front of you, then look at the pedigree.

                      Also, what has he been doing since Aug of 2011, when he last raced? What caused his retirement after a poor showing at Penn that night. From the OP, it sounds like he's been eating alot, but what else?

                      ETA: When talking to "racing" people about behavior, remember that many horses will change a lot when let down off the track. Racehorses are stalled for 23hrs a day, fed a ton of high-energy feed and hay and kept extremely fit. In some cases, (legal, theraputic) meds effect the horse's attitude. Take away those factors and in many cases you have a very different horse. Also, since most horses at the track are young, you are also dealing with the above factors combined with youthful exuberance.
                      F O.B
                      Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                      Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique


                      • #12
                        I handled many Medieval Man offspring way back when - he was always one of my very favorite sires back in those days - lovely babies - lovely to look at, lovely to work around is my recollection. And in general I think the Noholmes have a good reputation for soundness, durability and athleticism - Shecky Green and Nodobuble are teh more obvious sons, but MM was always my favorite.

                        Tapit may have a bad rep (see Nijinsky for my theory on why), but Pulpits have a rep for looking like a strip horse and having a great brain, so I would say he's worth a look for sure.
                        Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CBoylen View Post
                          Is it built like a hunter? The Tapits I have seen photos of all look very upright and straight.
                          I found a photo of the horse the OP's looking at and as another poster mentioned, he doesn't look like a WB and is very, very straight behind and upright in the pastern.


                          • #14
                            I know someone who owns a half-brother to this horse (a true half-brother, also out of Klassy Briefcase). I've never seen the horse in the flesh, but he seems attractive in pictures and easy to handle. He is still intact and she has bred him a few times.
                            Life would be infinitely better if pinatas suddenly appeared throughout the day.


                            • #15
                              Tapit is siring a very high % of good horses (high% = c. 10% stakes winners. That means that 90% are not stakes winners, but no one loks at it that way. . Tapit's stud fee is in the $100,000 range. Of course, more horses don't work out than do turn into stakes horses, so, just beause he is well bred, it doesn't mean that he should be a good racerhorse.

                              I am not smart enough to find the pictures, so I cannot comment. But, I am curious why he was gelded. If you spend six figures on a stud fee, you are hoping to get a good racehorse AND a stallion prospect. Horses which are this well bred are rarely gelded early, in case they develop into good horses as they mature.

                              The main reason for gelding a well bred horse is because his hormones take over his brain and he is all but unrideable as a stallion. Now, many of these geldings calm down and become good citizens once the testosterine is out of their systems. But, others don't. Once high strung, always high strung. I sure would want to ask a lot more questions AND see and handle the horse personally.

                              His dam's side of the pedigree is a pretty good sport horse pedigree. I know the horses on his sire's side, but the offspring are usually not available as sport horses because they are too fancy for a second (sport horse) career.
                              "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                              Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump


                              • #16
                                We had a Tapit colt that we re-started as a hunter and he was a kid's horse from day one. My student who was 16/17 at the time did 95% of the work on him and took him to his first show, etc. He was easy, easy, easy, great movement, great jump, hunter paced at age 4---just a really sweet guy with a great attitude and fancy besides. He was sold to an older Adult Ammy type who loves him and has brought home consistent tri-colors with him. He STRIKINGLY resembles Tapit, especially now that he's gotten all white---has the little Tapit ears and everything. It might have been his mother who was the saint.......but I've only dealt with one Tapit baby and I am a big fan. This guy is super brave and kind.
                                Katie Gardner ~ Otteridge Farm
                                Visit us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Otteri...12757628746926


                                • #17
                                  Although Tapit's stud fee is high, the market fell out in the great recession - and the TB industry was hit very hard. Tap Klass sold in 2008 well below what the breeder's had invested:

                                  Keeneland Association November 2008 Breeding Stock Sale $32,000


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Justa Bob View Post
                                    Although Tapit's stud fee is high, the market fell out in the great recession - and the TB industry was hit very hard. Tap Klass sold in 2008 well below what the breeder's had invested:

                                    Keeneland Association November 2008 Breeding Stock Sale $32,000
                                    Tapit's stud fee in 2007 was $12,500, and that was negotiable. Whoever sold that weanling for $32,000 made a very tidy profit.