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Trainers coaching and NOT coaching from the sidelines

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  • #21
    Once I go into the ring I don't hear a thing. I think my trainer would have to throw something at my head and connect before I was aware he was saying something to me.

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    • #22
      Same. ^ Once I'm on course, I block EVERYTHING out. So much so that if I'm off course, it'll take me a couple of seconds to hear anything about it (thank god that's only happened twice knock on wood). In the hack though, I'll occasionally hear my trainer give a pointer to other riders, like leg or something to that affect, but he doesn't talk to me, because generally if I'm under pressure like that, I won't hear him anyways.
      Mendokuse

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      • #23
        The way my trainer trains forces us to really think about each and every detail to get a fluid ride (hunters). For the most part he does not say anything while we are on course because he wants us to think for ourselves. However, every once in awhile when we ride past the gate he will quietly tell you to stay at that pace or to move up, etc.

        I am not a fan of trainers that yell out instruction while the rider is on course. IMO, it blatantly draws unnecessary attention to the errors that the rider is making if the trainer gives instruction too loudly.

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        • #24
          bM - re: the earbuds. WAAAy back when (early 70's?) a VBNT out here in CA (who was well known for his gadgets and 'creativity') had his kids' helmets rigged with earphones of some sort, and he gave instructions through a radio - maybe like a CB. I don't know the exact details, but it was well known.
          Last edited by Brooke; Apr. 26, 2013, 01:49 PM.

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          • #25
            My first thought is that if someone is so ill-prepared for riding at a horse show that she needs her trainer to yell at her all the way around the course, the yelling isn't going to help enough that she is going to be at any kind of advantage over those who can get around the course on their own. So let the trainers yell as many instructions as they feel the need.

            My second thought is that if all this coaching is going on at local schooling shows, let it happen. Riders have to learn how to handle the anxiety that is part of being a beginner at competitions. It is not unrealistic for a rider to be perfectly confident and competent at home, then get to her first few horse shows (or more) and completely freak out and need some help. So many here complain about the fact that beginners are starting their show careers at rated shows, and why oh why can't they get their feet wet at schooling shows because hey, riding at rated shows should be EARNED DAMNIT. Now beginners aren't allowed to learn at schooling shows either? What do you people want?

            You just cannot replicate a show environment at home. Everyone has to learn how to show at SHOWS. And some riders need more than one show to learn that - not everyone comes out of the womb as perfect as the narcissists who post here.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Brooke View Post
              bM - re: the earbuds. WAAAy back when (early 70's?) a VBNT out here in CA (who was well known for his gadgets and 'creativity') had his kids' helmets rigged with earphones of some sort, and he gave instructions through a radio - maybe like a CB. I don't know the exact details, but it was well known.
              Wow, I wouldn't think there would be a gadget small enough to do this and not be overly obvious back in the 70's.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by ynl063w View Post
                You just cannot replicate a show environment at home. Everyone has to learn how to show at SHOWS.
                Great point.

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                • #28
                  I don't like a lot of chatter before I go in the ring and the trainer can talk all they want when I'm in the ring, I can't hear them when I'm focused and on course. I really enjoy the chat after my rounds and the help warming up. Other than that, any words are unnecessary.
                  You don't scare me. I ride a MARE!

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                  • #29
                    I think it's completely acceptable for coaches to give instructions from outside the ring at schooling shows. I mean, isn't that what schooling shows are for? It's much better for coaches to help them through the entire course if they're really struggling than let them completely fall apart. Most of them can probably get through the same course at home no problem, but it's easy for nerves to get the best of you at shows. Usually the best way to get over your show anxiety is more showing.

                    Once you've gained more experience/confidence you will be able to figure out things more independently.

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                    • #30
                      Stay the hell out of the rated show rings if you need your trainer to call out the fences to you. Period. It is just embarassing and IMO, cheating, b/c if your trainer wasn't there to save your ** you would go off-course. If you go off-course do it gracefully and exit the ring don't cross your path 80 times and yell "where am I going?" Strive to be a competent student--know the course before going in the ring so you can execute your ride.
                      "Life is tough. I recommend getting a manicure and a really cute helmet."

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by ynl063w View Post
                        You just cannot replicate a show environment at home. Everyone has to learn how to show at SHOWS. And some riders need more than one show to learn that - not everyone comes out of the womb as perfect as the narcissists who post here.

                        True but then you go to more shows...and you practice what you can at home. In other horse sports...there is no coaching from the side lines. Dressage the test can be read but that's it. In eventing....NOTHING...nada. We have big time rules against unauthorized assistance. Enough so that you usually have to tell your friends and family to becareful what they shout when cheering you on xc. A shout of "Go Tammy" or whatever could get tagged as un authorized assitance resulting in elimination.

                        When I did jumpers and eq. My trainer was old school. They prepared me at home...then it was my job to ride in the ring. Then we discussed what I needed to work on next time after I came out. Even at schooling shows.....you were coached in warm up but not during the competition.

                        When your goal is to teach riders to be riders...and to think for themselves (which does take time and they will make mistakes)....there is never a "need" to coach while they are in the ring. And that is the test for how they are doing as riders.
                        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                          In other horse sports...there is no coaching from the side lines. Dressage the test can be read but that's it.
                          How is the trainer telling you which jump to jump next so horribly much worse than someone not remembering their dressage test and having it read to them?

                          I think it is great that they allow the lower levels to have the test read so the newer riders and concentrate on their horse and not have to panic about remembering the whole test. Same with the beginners doing a course. The trainer reminds them where to go. Shrug. Nothing horrible happening.

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                            How is the trainer telling you which jump to jump next so horribly much worse than someone not remembering their dressage test and having it read to them?

                            I think it is great that they allow the lower levels to have the test read so the newer riders and concentrate on their horse and not have to panic about remembering the whole test. Same with the beginners doing a course. The trainer reminds them where to go. Shrug. Nothing horrible happening.
                            My trainer would have never allowed a test to be read out loud even if it was permitted. It isn't permitted in eventing...even at the lowest levels. And it isn't permitted in dressage in championships I believe. But reading a test is still different than telling one how to ride it (go faster, slower, breath etc.)

                            If I had a kid who couldn't remember the course....I'd be doing things to help them learn how to over come this. There are tons of methods to remember a course and things one can do to deal with competition pressure.

                            Hell...my trainers used to put so much MORE pressure on me at home, and make our courses so much harder that by the time we went to a show...it was a walk in the park.
                            Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Apr. 25, 2013, 05:36 PM.
                            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                              In eventing....NOTHING...nada. We have big time rules against unauthorized assistance. Enough so that you usually have to tell your friends and family to becareful what they shout when cheering you on xc. A shout of "Go Tammy" or whatever could get tagged as un authorized assitance resulting in elimination.
                              Haha, this! Calling out fences during stadium or cross country will get your student/friend/kid eliminated. At area championships last year I merrily trotted past the last xc jump while everyone stood silently and watched. Nothing anyone could do about it.

                              I think there should be a similar rule for Jumpers. Half the battle is remembering the stupid course!
                              The big guy: Lincoln

                              Southern Maryland Equestrian

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                              • #35
                                If we're talking kids(or adults) in their first year of showing then I see nothing wrong with it if its kept with in reason. Especially in u/s classes when they're already concentrating on being in the ring with horses and people they don't know and diagonals are the least of their worries. Having people stand on either end of the ring to give a simple "diagonal" or other reminder isn't going to hurt anyone. I have heard trainers yelling an entire jumper course to someone but often its a newbie to the jumper ring. As long as its in a lower level class, I say whatever.

                                At my last show the horse I was showing jumped harder than I expected and knocked me in the jaw and I got disoriented. I never forget courses and this was just a simple hunter course but the entire course fell out of my head and I just picked one of two options it had to be (albeit the wrong one). Had my trainer been within earshot I would have definitely asked which fence was next.
                                aka Amanda
                                "For by the love that guides my pen, I know great horses live again."

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                                • #36
                                  It is always helpful for me when my trainer coaches me a little bit while I'm passing her. Nothing crazy, definitely no shouting across the ring. (I usually don't hear anything unless I'm passing her anyway). For little things like "More pace" or like someone said above, when show nerves erase my memory and I get lost, a little bit of coaching is appreciated!

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                                  • #37
                                    A little coaching from the side here and there is fine, IMO. If a coach is shouting out instructions to every one of their riders...that's too much. There's nothing wrong with a quiet word from the sidelines as a rider passes by, or shouting out the next jump if a rider seems to have lost their place on course. Brief reminders here and there are no problem either. Shouting out the entire course, shouting out detailed instructions...too much.

                                    I really mind much less the little kids getting coached from the sidelines, though sometimes I think it backfires and only serves to distract their attention away from what they are doing to have people yapping at them from outside the ring.

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                                    • #38
                                      As an eventer, I am used to the no coaching thing, and have always been perfectly happy with it. I've done my homework and have gone over the course or test or whatever with my coach, so I should be good. We'll rehash mistakes when I'm done.

                                      That being said, I suffered horribly from some show jumping nerves last year. Over the winter, in my two pronged attack to work on that, I have been riding with a good h/j/eq trainer. Before my first event of the year, she helped me at a local jumper show to help me develop a good warm up strategy and get a baseline for where my brain was in the ring. She DID coach a bit from the rail. 9 times out of 10, I couldn't actually hear what she was saying, but hearing her voice would trigger my brain back into action and I would remember whatever little step I was maybe forgetting. It helped. I probably would have been fine without it, but it was a nice thing to have at the same time.

                                      She later warmed me up for show jumping at my first event, and was good help. By that point, the homework was really solidified, she stood quietly at the rail, and we nailed our course. Homework is the key...not the the rail side coaching.
                                      Amanda

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
                                        Homework is the key...not the the rail side coaching.

                                        This. I have NO doubt a little rail side coaching helps a rider. Good coaching always helps. But it is a show. A competition. Coaching belongs at home and at warm up...not in the show ring. It is easier for riders to get better in the long run without a crutch at the begining.
                                        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by MHM View Post
                                          Being on the wrong diagonal WILL radically alter the placing in an equitation class.

                                          I can assure you that most judges notice which kids know their diagonals without the outside assistance.
                                          Oh, certainly. I completely agree. Judges catch that stuff right away. But it does help the student learn that they did wrong, and to fix it before leaving. It is pretty embarrassing to come out of the ring and have someone say "Great ride, but you were on the wrong diagonal for two laps before you fixed it!" I always felt better as a kid when someone gave that little bit of help - it can get intimidating out there.

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