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Test your ethics

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  • Original Poster

    #41
    [QUOTE=doublesstable;6956339]

    Do you really have time to spend going after a kooky teen that has no money?

    Not a kooky teen - she's 32... makes it even worse, doesn't it?
    "Socrates was a very wise man who went around giving good advice. They poisoned him." Anonymous...

    Comment


    • #42
      A lot of litigious suggestions not only on this tread but on COTH in general. Sign of the times I guess. But I have found the “hassle factor” of taking legal recourse even for considerably more money then this is not worth the stress and expense. Write it off as a learning experience and tell her to move her horse and tack ASAP. When someone approaches me I “chit chat” and ask where they are moving from. I then call the previous farm/farms and get some back ground information. We don’t have FU money but I would rather have an empty stall and pick up cans for the 5 cents then deal with nonsense.

      Comment


      • #43
        As a working student, I know how hard it is for us to have lives outside of the long hours we spend at the barn- so I understand why she may have made the decision to skip the show and go camping. Also, being honest with our employers about needing a break and/or doing anything that is self-satisfying is also not easy- I know I sometimes feel like I can't or don't deserve to ever go away on vacation or enjoy my life outside of working!
        However, what she said about "pulling one over" on you was inappropriate and unforgivable- if that's actually what she said.
        I can understand your anger, for sure, but don't file a police report- no need to ruin a young girl's life with anything like that. I think making her make up to you the funds that were lost and firing her with explanation is plenty. She will learn her lesson.

        ETA: whoops- I assumed she was young because of the age bracket most working students are, but I just saw you said she's 32.. I shouldn't judge my "elders" but that kind of behavior is DEFINITELY unforgivable at 32..

        Comment


        • #44
          You said she filled out her entry for the show. I assume she also signed it? There's your "in writing". Try telling show management that is not a contract. It is.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #45
            She signed as the rider. I signed as the owner and the trainer, which makes me - in the eyes of show management - the person responsible for the fees. Since many riders are juniors, the rider is NOT considered the financially responsible party.

            If only horse show entry forms had a spot which says: "person responsible for show fees" life might be a little easier! Unfortunately, trainers often find themselves paying for fees and then having to sort things out at home. It's usually not a big deal with the customers & they make things good immediately...
            "Socrates was a very wise man who went around giving good advice. They poisoned him." Anonymous...

            Comment


            • #46
              I disagree with the poster who said don't file a police report .. It is not the OP place to teach this girl a lesson nor is it her responsibility as to what happens in her future. If the items she stole is over a few hundred dollars, and you file a criminal charge she will receive a summons to appear in court . If she fails to do so she will have an outstanding warrant . If a future employer actually checks to see if she has a criminal background this will show up.. With this WS character becoming more and more questionable , one can only imagine a future where saddles start disappearing from tack rooms at major horseshows.. So do all the other trainers a favor and give them the tools to stop her in her tracks before someone else becomes her victim

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by PinkBoots View Post
                As a working student, I know how hard it is for us to have lives outside of the long hours we spend at the barn- so I understand why she may have made the decision to skip the show and go camping. Also, being honest with our employers about needing a break and/or doing anything that is self-satisfying is also not easy- I know I sometimes feel like I can't or don't deserve to ever go away on vacation or enjoy my life outside of working!
                However, what she said about "pulling one over" on you was inappropriate and unforgivable- if that's actually what she said.
                I can understand your anger, for sure, but don't file a police report- no need to ruin a young girl's life with anything like that. I think making her make up to you the funds that were lost and firing her with explanation is plenty. She will learn her lesson.

                ETA: whoops- I assumed she was young because of the age bracket most working students are, but I just saw you said she's 32.. I shouldn't judge my "elders" but that kind of behavior is DEFINITELY unforgivable at 32..
                I think the OP definetley needs to file a police report, stealing things isn't a one-time thing, I'm sure the WS has done it before and will do it again.

                Also- ditching on a horse show at the last minute? Not ok. WS was going on (mostly) someone else's dime to show a horse, things come up, I get that, but if WS was really burnt out, she could have easily asked for other days off instead. JMO.

                Comment


                • #48
                  The WS isn't somebody that had 2 threads going at the same time about them last year that got locked, is it?
                  Originally posted by The Saddle
                  Perhaps I need my flocking adjusted.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by MIKES MCS View Post
                    I disagree with the poster who said don't file a police report .. It is not the OP place to teach this girl a lesson nor is it her responsibility as to what happens in her future. If the items she stole is over a few hundred dollars, and you file a criminal charge she will receive a summons to appear in court . If she fails to do so she will have an outstanding warrant . If a future employer actually checks to see if she has a criminal background this will show up.. With this WS character becoming more and more questionable , one can only imagine a future where saddles start disappearing from tack rooms at major horseshows.. So do all the other trainers a favor and give them the tools to stop her in her tracks before someone else becomes her victim
                    Not sure why you are putting a monetary amount on this, Mike. I've arrested people for theft of less than $10. Heck, less than $5. Theft is theft, baby. Maybe the state of VA has some different laws regarding it, but the OP should call anyways and let the local LE tell her that, not us random folks on COTH making suggestions that in all actuality wreck her chances of getting LE assistance.

                    I've said it once, let me say it again:

                    If you make a "DEAL" with someone (ie, you have X hours/days before I call the coppers), it becomes civil because you entered a verbal contract and actually are now giving them PERMISSION to have your items for X time...at which point, LE is really less able and inclined to help.
                    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Of course you are responsible for the scratch/stall/etc fees to the show management. However, that does not let your WS off the hook for signing the entry. She is not a minor. She is responsible to YOU, the person who had to pay HER fees to the show. She signed the darned form. I assume you have an invoice showing what the show charged you in stalls/scratch, correct?

                      Deduct from her pay.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        If you choose the court route, try to get one or more of the people she bragged to that "she got one over on you" to come with you as witnesses. This would be a big help. Notarized statements may not be admissible because they can't be cross-examined/questioned.
                        Founding Member: Spotted Saddlebred Pals Clique

                        People used to ask my Grampy, "What's your favorite color of horse?" He'd answer, "FAT".

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by TheJenners View Post
                          Not sure why you are putting a monetary amount on this, Mike. I've arrested people for theft of less than $10. Heck, less than $5. Theft is theft, baby. Maybe the state of VA has some different laws regarding it, but the OP should call anyways and let the local LE tell her that, not us random folks on COTH making suggestions that in all actuality wreck her chances of getting LE assistance.

                          I've said it once, let me say it again:

                          If you make a "DEAL" with someone (ie, you have X hours/days before I call the coppers), it becomes civil because you entered a verbal contract and actually are now giving them PERMISSION to have your items for X time...at which point, LE is really less able and inclined to help.
                          I agree, theft is a theft no matter what the dollar amount; but help me out here; wouldn't you have to have "proof" this 32 year old hot mess stole from the OP?

                          If that is not the case, then we could all go around saying someone stole something and to arrest them.

                          And on the civil issue; if she did not hire and fire this person correctly, pay workers comp on her wages and employee taxes etc. the "OP" will be the one in trouble.

                          And I get what you are saying about having her items as an employee.....

                          Were all COTHers offering help because she asked. I would agree with you on the police report for the stolen items.
                          Live in the sunshine.
                          Swim in the sea.
                          Drink the wild air.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Yes she'd need "proof" that something she owns is now in someone else's possession without permission. But that's not that hard, depending on what was taken.

                            Employee/employeer stuff is not LE concern
                            COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                            "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #54
                              Good grief! I hope not - means I missed something that could have kept me out of this miserable situation...

                              Originally posted by rustbreeches View Post
                              The WS isn't somebody that had 2 threads going at the same time about them last year that got locked, is it?
                              "Socrates was a very wise man who went around giving good advice. They poisoned him." Anonymous...

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by findeight View Post
                                Except you can no longer give any information other then dates worked and, in some cases if directly asked, if you would rehire them. Legally you may not provide any details or they can sue the jeans right off your hinny. Sucks but references from former employers no longer provide much background.

                                However, the old barn grapevine is your friend here, particularly with a pseudo employee like a WS, reputation is everything and the horse world is small. Check them out in the future and let them go at the first hint of attitude or entitlement. It's great to be nice but you look bad with a knife sticking out of your back.
                                Hmm, didn't know that about references, but, as you mentioned, everyone talks in the horse world, so there is a very accessible way around it. This kind of situation happened at my barn: BO and my trainer get along well. BO wanted to fill more stalls, allows a Shady Trainer to move in with her clients. BO is told by my trainer about ST's antics, many of them extremely dangerous and possibly illegal, but listens to her cry and lets her in. If he would have bothered to talk to all the other BOs in the area, he would have had fair warning for what was to come. Basically, sh*t went down, my horse ended up injured, and he had to deal with kicking her out. All that could have been avoided had the BO peeked into her history.)

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by PinkBoots View Post
                                  As a working student, I know how hard it is for us to have lives outside of the long hours we spend at the barn- so I understand why she may have made the decision to skip the show and go camping...
                                  She watched OP pay stall and fees for her show, knew for weeks (at least a month for most A shows) OP had paid for the show then said "Oops, sorry you paid $XXX.00 for the stall and fees and were counting on my showing but I am going camping instead" and that's OK with you? This WS went back on an agreement and left her employer holding the bag and IMO that's not OK at all.

                                  Far as the references go, many larger companies now use third party verification services, I think one is called EVerify or something. Prospective employers don't even talk to former employers to avoid any appearance of favoritism, vendetta against them or anything else that could get former employer sued for ruining former employee's job chances-even when it's former employee ruining their own chances.

                                  Most barns don't do this...yet.
                                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by TheJenners View Post
                                    Not sure why you are putting a monetary amount on this, Mike. I've arrested people for theft of less than $10. Heck, less than $5. Theft is theft, baby. Maybe the state of VA has some different laws regarding it, but the OP should call anyways and let the local LE tell her that, not us random folks on COTH making suggestions that in all actuality wreck her chances of getting LE assistance.

                                    I've said it once, let me say it again:

                                    If you make a "DEAL" with someone (ie, you have X hours/days before I call the coppers), it becomes civil because you entered a verbal contract and actually are now giving them PERMISSION to have your items for X time...at which point, LE is really less able and inclined to help.

                                    Your right I should not have included an amount I guess I just assumed ( my bad) it would be a few hundred dollars , a theft is a theft it does not matter the amount ..

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #58
                                      Originally posted by MIKES MCS View Post
                                      Your right I should not have included an amount I guess I just assumed ( my bad) it would be a few hundred dollars , a theft is a theft it does not matter the amount ..
                                      It is, but the question becomes how seriously the police are going to take a theft complaint involving a small amount and whether, I would end up looking petty as a result. Sometimes people don't remember what actually happened, they only remember that "they've heard bad things about so-and-so." I have talked to a good friend who is a cop & his response is that eh... there'd be a police report, but no real action would be taken. Report lost in the shuffle.

                                      As it turns out, one of the items taken was a bridle belonging to a boarder, a junior who was close to the WS. She's pretty upset and her parents are dealing with that part of it. To say they are pissed is an understatement.

                                      She will quickly get a reputation - NoVA is a small, small world. And since she doesn't have anything to offer trainers from a financial point of view, she will find it very hard for anyone to take her on.

                                      Just so I don't appear to be a complete idiot: she had a horse when she came to me. The horse colicked (colon displaced) and she didn't have the money to pay for surgery, so she put the horse down. I did feel sorry for her and that's why I was letting her ride mine (for free). The clients she was teaching seemed to like her and it appeared to be working. But, then... wow...

                                      Mike, I have started a paper trail so I can take her to small claims court in the near future. Think that's the best route.
                                      "Socrates was a very wise man who went around giving good advice. They poisoned him." Anonymous...

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        What the girl did was wrong.Don't stop being kind because of it.Some people will take advantage ,and some will be truly grateful.Do kind things because it is good for your soul.
                                        Hopefully you can get your money back ,or get a judgement against her.I think you should pursue it on principle,so she doesn't get over on you ,and has some consequences to her behavior. The problem with Karma is it takes too long.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Please consider filing a police report, if only to start a paper trail with law enforcement and get her name in the system.
                                          PA Hi-Ly Visible [PA Hi-Noon (by Magnum Psyche) x Takara Padrona (by *Padron)]

                                          Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique

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