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Test your ethics

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  • #21
    Originally posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
    Perhaps she'll figure out why there aren't any welcome mats out for her anywhere.

    And go knock on her door and tell her you want your stuff back.

    I'd be a cold day in hell before anyone bragged about taking my stuff and still had it.

    Or bide your time, she'll go to a show eventually. And she go to the porta potty.

    Imagine her surprise if she's standing at the in gate and you calmly walk up and take your bridle off her horse.

    That would make it so worth it.

    And then get the pants sued off of you! Love this in theory, but the reality is nowadays you couldnt do any of that stuff, legally~
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm

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    • #22
      Total long shot but - not by any chance attending/has attended/recent grad of Virginia Intermont, and parents live in Georgia, by any chance?

      This story sounds painfully familiar.
      "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

      Comment


      • #23
        I'd file a police report for the theft, too. That way if your stuff turns up for sale on ebay or craigslist you have a shot at getting it back. I'm sorry this happened to you, ungrateful people are all over and willing to take advantage of anyone they can! Was this chick's name Emily, by chance?
        Bolter Bolter Bolter!!

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        • #24
          The way I'd handle the theft is to call her up and tell her she has exactly 3 hours to return your specific list of items; if she does not, THEN you'll file the police report.

          As for the rest, well, "revenge is a dish best served cold." Blackball her. Make good 'n shootin' sure every other BO and BM in about a hundred mile radius, I mean ALL your contacts, know who she is and what she did. There's something about the inability to get a stall with any but the dirt bags that will either straighten her out fast--or more likely, just remove her from horses. Sounds like she's on her way out fast, anyway . . .

          I never cease to be amazed that people think they can get away with stuff like this. Don't they know we all TALK?

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by doublesstable View Post
            Agreed; but it's a waste of time if you go to court without proper documentation. A police report will start the paper work trail you MAY need in the future.
            And going to court is a butt-load of work!

            Meh.... get your stuff back the easiest/quickest way possible, get her off your place and move on.

            Re-reading, I think the chick was flying the coop (in that she took her stuff out of the barn). That means she knows the jig is up. She probably isn't interested in knowing why she was fired or making things right with the OP.

            I would not be pleased and not interested in helping this person find or keep future jobs in my circle. Make of that what you will.
            The armchair saddler
            Politically Pro-Cat

            Comment


            • #26
              And another thing!

              This is a kid who can't afford a horse show but can afford to sue the OP. Kid is stupid enough to do wrong and publicly advertise that... but smart enough to launch a lawsuit?

              This sounds farfetched to me.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by mvp View Post
                And another thing!

                This is a kid who can't afford a horse show but can afford to sue the OP. Kid is stupid enough to do wrong and publicly advertise that... but smart enough to launch a lawsuit?

                This sounds farfetched to me.
                Sadly since I reside in the land of the lazy and their lawsuits those that have tried to sue our business have been those that are the most desperate. They go after the fact you improperly paid them and find an attorney that will take their case at no cost. We also live in a pro employee state.
                Live in the sunshine.
                Swim in the sea.
                Drink the wild air.

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                • #28
                  I'd also check with insurance company and accountant about what you may need to do vis a vis police report etc in order to recover costs, including writing off loss on your taxes. That may be the best you can hope for.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Eew, ick...this MO is grossly familiar as there was a young woman in our area who blew through more than a few farms under similar circumstances. She graduated from "working student" to "barn manager/trainer" and scammed God only knows how many people. She ripped off one of my friends and her family for a slew of money, equipment, etc...and their good farm name. The girl was living on their farm, using their mailing address and it was YEARS before the collection people and skip tracers went away. And b/c she'd used the farm name/address when setting up accounts w/feed stores, my friends were drug through the mud.

                    Our scammer - whose hair color changed about every other month - bounced from farm to farm close by, things would start to get hot in the kitchen; she'd lay low then resurface a town or two over. Eventually it got REALLY bad around here and she disappeared. Imagine my surprise upon walking into the tack shop in Landrum and she's behind the counter! OMG. How unfortunate. I know people can do a 180 and I'd like to think she changed but...all I could think was "I wonder who she's scamming now?"

                    What really, really sucked, though, is that if people had pursued justice, or at least talked about getting scammed (not publicly as that would open a whole 'nother can o' worms) by her (horse world ain't that big), she would have been stopped. I was telling some of my Piedmont NC friends about seeing her in Tryon area after she'd left my friend high and dry and it seemed everyone had a story about her. When I asked why no one said or did anything about our resident grifter, more than a few trainers/farm owners/former clients told me that they were afraid of her...they'd seen her scruples and feared she would burn the barn down or something equally horrible. I think, too, there was a sense of embarrassment over having been duped by her.

                    While it may be tempting to just let her work off what she owes you, get your tack/equip back or whatever...I'd file that police report in a hot minute and absolutely contact governing bodies...so sorry this happened to you.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I would file a police report for the missing items but more for the insurance claim. Guess what? Police are busy and they are probably not going to question her for what sounds like a garden variety theft claim falling into misdemeanor value unless they are really, really bored.

                      I sincerely hope this is an ex working student? BTW, you can NOT share any details about her time with you as a reference, just verify dates. But you CAN usually say you would not hire her again if asked directly. Saying anything else is no longer acceptable and can get you sued.
                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        You can tell her she has, say, one day to return your items or you will file a police report. If she hasn't sold it, you should be able to recover your stuff.

                        As for show fees she owes you, you could either send her a bill and forget it, or put it through small claims court.

                        Hopefully she learns a lesson somewhere.

                        I hope you do, too. You sound like a kind, generous person. I hope you don't lose that, but it wouldn't hurt to protect yourself a bit so you're not taken advantage of. (That said, I personally cannot think of what I would have done differently. Maybe asked around through friends before trusting this person. Maybe.)

                        Good luck!
                        Born under a rock and owned by beasts!

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                          Total long shot but - not by any chance attending/has attended/recent grad of Virginia Intermont, and parents live in Georgia, by any chance?

                          This story sounds painfully familiar.
                          If this is true, I would contact the Riding Program and let Eddie know that this person is diminishing VI's reputation (I'm an alumna and on behalf of all the GOOD alumni I'm pissed) and tell him another mention of ethics might be appropriate before school gets out next month.
                          ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
                          Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

                          "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Finzean View Post
                            Eew, ick...this MO is grossly familiar as there was a young woman in our area who blew through more than a few farms under similar circumstances. She graduated from "working student" to "barn manager/trainer" and scammed God only knows how many people. She ripped off one of my friends and her family for a slew of money, equipment, etc...and their good farm name. The girl was living on their farm, using their mailing address and it was YEARS before the collection people and skip tracers went away. And b/c she'd used the farm name/address when setting up accounts w/feed stores, my friends were drug through the mud.

                            Our scammer - whose hair color changed about every other month - bounced from farm to farm close by, things would start to get hot in the kitchen; she'd lay low then resurface a town or two over. Eventually it got REALLY bad around here and she disappeared. Imagine my surprise upon walking into the tack shop in Landrum and she's behind the counter! OMG. How unfortunate. I know people can do a 180 and I'd like to think she changed but...all I could think was "I wonder who she's scamming now?"

                            What really, really sucked, though, is that if people had pursued justice, or at least talked about getting scammed (not publicly as that would open a whole 'nother can o' worms) by her (horse world ain't that big), she would have been stopped. I was telling some of my Piedmont NC friends about seeing her in Tryon area after she'd left my friend high and dry and it seemed everyone had a story about her. When I asked why no one said or did anything about our resident grifter, more than a few trainers/farm owners/former clients told me that they were afraid of her...they'd seen her scruples and feared she would burn the barn down or something equally horrible. I think, too, there was a sense of embarrassment over having been duped by her.

                            While it may be tempting to just let her work off what she owes you, get your tack/equip back or whatever...I'd file that police report in a hot minute and absolutely contact governing bodies...so sorry this happened to you.
                            I believe I know exactly who you're talking about. If it's not the same person, then it's her twin in the same geographic area.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              This is why you check references and BELIEVE them when you get several that all say the same thing. I am very sorry this happened to you, I hope she did no serious damage and you can learn from this and avoid similar situations in the future.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Small claims court?

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  OP, all I can say is I wish she was as grateful as I would be to work for you and get those types of benefits!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    The more I think about this the more I think, I would cut your losses.

                                    I don't know what state you are in, but if you did not have her hired properly, with time cards, workers comp, liability insurance, etc. YOU may be the one that gets burned again.

                                    Hopefully what she took was not substantial and all the people and animals at your place are okay.
                                    Live in the sunshine.
                                    Swim in the sea.
                                    Drink the wild air.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by bluebuckets View Post
                                      This is why you check references and BELIEVE them when you get several that all say the same thing. I am very sorry this happened to you, I hope she did no serious damage and you can learn from this and avoid similar situations in the future.
                                      Except you can no longer give any information other then dates worked and, in some cases if directly asked, if you would rehire them. Legally you may not provide any details or they can sue the jeans right off your hinny. Sucks but references from former employers no longer provide much background.

                                      However, the old barn grapevine is your friend here, particularly with a pseudo employee like a WS, reputation is everything and the horse world is small. Check them out in the future and let them go at the first hint of attitude or entitlement. It's great to be nice but you look bad with a knife sticking out of your back.
                                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        I've read and re-read your responses and thank you for your thoughts. Couple of clarifications:
                                        - This is not a kid. This hot mess is 32.
                                        - She came to me in tears after being chucked out of another barn with a story that was credible given some questionable activities of the BM there. However, I ran into that BM at Culpeper, questioned him (gently) and was given a version that is considerable different than the one she told. Truth is somewhat obscure, but the "conniving flake" description he offered rings close to my experience.
                                        - She is out of my barn and will not be returning. She came on Monday - my day off - to clear her things out & head for Saugerties with another trainer & boy toy.


                                        Thank you for your suggestions on dealing with the money situation: I am taking all of you up on your suggestion to send her a bill for the fees she cost me at Culpeper minus what I owe her for lessons. Note that I don't expect to see a cent, but at least there will be documentation and I will be doing the legally correct thing. We'll see what happens with the return of my equipment - nothing too expensive, but the pettiness of it is annoying.

                                        War Admiral - she is not a VI grad.

                                        My other working student, who is great, has let out a big sigh of relief and told me how happy she is to have her gone.

                                        I'm fairly well known & I hope liked and respected enough that other trainers would call me & ask for a reference if she shows up at their door.

                                        One thing that stands out to me in this thread is the need to get a contract with my working students. My grooms have written job descriptions that are posted in the feed room and we have printed rate sheets for extra jobs. But the need for a written contract with my WS's is important! Any suggestions for what should be included there, let me know.

                                        Buyer beware is correct though - there are a lot of nut jobs in this business! I've been around for awhile & grew up in the Chicago horse world so you WOULD think I'd know better!!! Never to old to live & learn!
                                        "Socrates was a very wise man who went around giving good advice. They poisoned him." Anonymous...

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #40
                                          I've paid fees for some other working students I've had in the past. Kind of as a reward... particularly if they have some talent. Our system doesn't reward talent like it used to - I don't think we're going to see it produce any more Michael Matzs or Joe Fargis' or Kathy Kushners... so trainers & owners need to stand up & help the talented but not wealthy improve... just saying...

                                          Originally posted by roamingnome View Post
                                          I wouldn't say anything.
                                          I would let her keep thinking she 'pulled one over on you', and let her keep 'teaching' for you.
                                          Once she has taught enough to 'make up' what you were out at the horse show, I would show her the door.

                                          Also- you sound awesome. I would jump at the opportunity to horse show for half of my class fees!
                                          "Socrates was a very wise man who went around giving good advice. They poisoned him." Anonymous...

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