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Bit for the woman riding "a man's horse"

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  • #21
    Originally posted by RugBug View Post
    There's nothing wrong with recognizing that men and women are different and have different strengths and weaknesses. It also doesn't mean men or women can't have strengths that we might typically attribute to the opposite gender. As long as there isn't pervasive discrimination because of the designation, there really isn't anything wrong with the label...IMO.
    My problem is with the implication that our control over a 1500 lb animal is due to physical strength.


    • #22
      The implication made the point - the horse can be strong. I have one of those
      and I understand that kind of ride now. We tried different bits and a slow twist with a running martingale actually worked rather well but I found a bit with a curb chain allowed me to get this horse to lighten with the leverage. Certain bits, yes they can pull your arms off.

      I didn't like riding in a Pelham until I rode "this" https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater horse

      If you haven't tried a Pelham it's worth a shot. Good luck!!!!
      Live in the sunshine.
      Swim in the sea.
      Drink the wild air.


      • #23
        Originally posted by Hippolyta View Post
        My problem is with the implication that our control over a 1500 lb animal is due to physical strength.
        But it can be with some of them, so what's wrong with pointing I out?
        Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
        Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


        • #24
          Off topic but for comparison between a man and a woman riding the same horse look at Mr. Medicott ridden by KOC. He is very very strong and opinionated. Very different look to the ride when its KOC versus his previous owner. I would also say look at the style change for gem twist from man to woman.


          • #25
            Originally posted by rizzodm View Post
            Double bridle.
            ^ x2

            Or try a short-shank type hackamore (Pessoa or Sprenger type)
            Originally posted by rustbreeches
            [George Morris] doesn't always drink beer, but when he does, he prefers Dos Equis


            • #26
              Originally posted by Hippolyta View Post
              Is anyone else slightly irritated by the "man's ride" phrase??
              Hippolyta- THANK YOU!!!! I clicked on this post just because of that title under general discussion forums. It irritates the snot out of me honestly. I won't start my rant about GB because honestly I have minimal respect for the guy but to throw out a sexist and chauvenistic comment like that sent me over the edge.

              I had a horse that sounds very similar to yours. 17h TB that rode like a mack truck. Everyone suggested whacky bitting suggestions: segunda, pelham, 3 ring elevator, draw reins, german martingale, you name it. I had a pro come ride him to help me figure out what was best and it turned out he needed a french link loose ring snaffle. His issues were OVERbitting. At the time I was 5'1" and weighted 98 lbs (those were the days) and I ended up being able to ride him.

              If there were true "man's ride" horses, please explain to me how Margie Goldstein-Engle at a whopping 4'11" can handle some of the horses she does?

              Sorry for the rant, I just could not refrain. Anyway, see if it is possible that the horse is overbitted. Get help from a dressage rider. My current OTTB leans, curls, braces, etc (almost every bad habit an OTTB can have) and he is now in a German silver french link loose ring and rides like a saint!


              • #27
                As I understand it horse was in a rubber mullen loose ring. It is not possible to be less bitted than that unless you forego a bit altogether. He can't be THAT hard-mouthed but I can understand OP wanting to try some options to lighten him up without muscle. One of my horses goes in a similar bit and the other just blows past a rubber mullen when jumping. He's controllable but balancing him requires so much muscle that more bit is kinder for both of us.

                Though I agree, OP, if you haven't tried a variety of milder options already, like a french link, a plain Myler comfort snaffle without hooks, etc. that is the first place to go beyond the rubber mullen. Some horses just hate hackabits so perhaps he doesn't need something stronger than the hackabit, just different. I'd try a KK ultra and see what happens if you have a friend with one you can borrow.


                • #28
                  Originally posted by anmoro View Post
                  to throw out a sexist and chauvenistic comment like that sent me over the edge.
                  Please. It's not a sexist or chauvinistic comment.
                  Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                  Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by anmoro View Post
                    ...but to throw out a sexist and chauvenistic comment like that sent me over the edge.
                    Oh please It's just a phrase, not sexist or chauvinistic. My dad's horse is a 'mans ride'. The trainer (5'6" women" rides him, she jokes that she channels her inner german man. He's big, strong, likes a heavier contact and seat. He's an awesome horse and he and my dad and he are great together. He's not my type though, I'm not strong enough!

                    My little TB is a 'ladies horse'. He's little, light in the mouth, and requires finesse over strength. My dad would NOT do well on him, but I think he's great!


                    • #30
                      LOL! I couldn't figure out which prejudice we were going with; was it that the horse was too strong for a girl (because goodness knows it's completely possible to out muscle a horse -eye roll), or was it a "husband horse" situation where the strong female rider was over riding a pampered husband palfrey.

                      He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


                      • #31
                        I would never be insulted by a horse being described as a "man's ride". Doesn't sound like a horse that I would want to sit on. I don't like a "push pull" ride and would decline the experience. I prefer a sit and spur ride than having to use upper body strength (that I don't have). I don't want to be pulled on but those who are insulted by the term might light it.


                        • #32
                          Why do you all assume by man's ride we mean yanking their faces off and that we think we can muscle them around? Clearly you've never ridden a horse like this.

                          By saying a "man's ride" I mean just the opposite. You can't muscle him around, he wouldn't even notice if you tried. However, athletic men in general, have a naturally stronger body. So by holding themselves together, they can hold the horse together with greater ease. Not to mention the strength in their legs to get him to step up from behind.

                          Trust me, riding a horse like this is no easy feat. So get over yourselves and the politically correct bs. I am a feminist by definition, but I am also a realist.
                          Celtic Charisma (R.I.P) ~ http://flickr.com/photos/rockandracehorses/2387275281
                          Proud owner of "The Intoxicated Moose!"
                          "Hope is not an executable plan" ~ My Mom
                          I love my Dublin-ator


                          • #33
                            My OTTB 17 hh freight train with a big neck went in a slow twist gag with a snaffle and a gag rein. I could use the snaffle 90% of the time flatting, but had the gag for low-level jumping. Went to a corkscrew gag with snaffle and gag reins for the bigger jumps, as he would pull like a mack truck to them, jump hard, and then roar toward the next one. I was never so fit as when I rode him daily!


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by tyedyecommando View Post
                              I would never be insulted by a horse being described as a "man's ride". Doesn't sound like a horse that I would want to sit on. I don't like a "push pull" ride and would decline the experience. I prefer a sit and spur ride than having to use upper body strength (that I don't have). I don't want to be pulled on but those who are insulted by the term might light it.
                              A "push-pull" ride does not mean you just use your arms to ride the horse. To the contrary, you use your leg and body the most, backed up with your arms, to ride these horses. It just means you have to do more to get them round and engaged. My junior jumper required you to sit up, keep your leg on and not drop his face before the jumps -- he wanted contact. Contrast him with my other high-level jumper, who required a light half-seat at most, a long rein and super-low hands to jump his best. With the first horse, he performed best when the rider was actively involved. The second performed better when the rider stayed out of his way. The first was a push-pull ride, the second a finesse ride. It's not an insult, it's a descriptor.

                              Personally I like a finesse ride better but it's not like it's some sort of bad experience to ride a push-pull horse. If you are sitting and spurring you probably have a push-pull horse, with more emphasis on the push.


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by doublesstable View Post
                                The implication made the point - the horse can be strong.
                                Exactly. I would describe my horse as more of a "man's ride". He is big, can be very strong and when he gets rolling along on a course of jumps he can yank a smaller woman like me right out of the saddle. He does require alot of core strength and muscle to collect and engage the hind end too but he is also quite forward and can get very strong/leaning if you use too much hand.
                                It is a happy medium that can be difficult to balance. People that are taller, have more upper body and/core strength tend to have an easier time with him. My husband rides him on occasion and he rides in a loose ring happy mouth snaffle with no issue while I need to use a Gag with two reins to keep him in check every few rides. Most of the time I ride in a slow twist Dr. Bristol or a KK ultra loose ring with a figure 8. Switching between those 3 bits helps ALOT to keep him guessing.
                                I don't take offense to that, I know I am slightly over horsed. I rode quite a few different horses over the winter, all smaller/lighter boned than him and I found them considerably less tiring to ride over a course of jumps simply because they were more appropriately sized for me. Other women my size that ride my horse also find him to be physically tiring to ride unless we are just hacking along on the trails on a loose rein.


                                • #36
                                  Sorry if this is really stupid, but what about a running or possibly a German martingale?

                                  I know, it isn't a bit or noseband. You just said he likes draw reins, and it is hard to replicate the results without the draw rein...but Running and German martingales both have an impact on bit action, and depending on what it is, exactly, that he likes about the draw reins, he might get it from those.

                                  I was also going to suggest trying a hack with one set of reins and his regular bit on the other, and playing around the see what the hackamore action does for him. That might lead to the selection of the right Myler (or other) bit options, figuring out which elements he likes.

                                  I have a horse who isn't really a puller, or hard-mouthed...she just kind of never really understood the idea of working on the bit. Nose poked out all the time. I could get her into a decent frame only with a GP level Dressage trainer in the center of the ring, giving me the precise timing for my inside leg, telling me exactly what to do with my hands, and putting WAAAAAAAY more weight on the reins than I could possibly sustain. I also stopped being able to afford the GP trainer's lessons, difficult to justify for an aged Clydesdale mare whose real calling in life is trail riding. Suggestions from fellow horse people led me to try a brutal Kimberwicke, with no effect, as well as a Pelham, with limited effect. Martingales, draw reins, all sorts of things. I think most people just looked at her and assumed that she was really heavy. My comments about how she was pretty energetic and moved with eagerness were usually met with knowing smiles...pretty sure people assumed that they were seeing the draft equivalent of running through the bit...it just looked slower than, say, a runaway TB.

                                  The Pelham prompted me to try a straight leverage bit (as opposed to the combination pelham) and wow, she just sort of understood the idea for the first time. The horse goes on about a finger's worth of rein pressure, she's a nice, eager mover, and has a great steady rhythm in all her gaits. She'd done Hunter courses, trails, lessons, all of it with that light ride, and her neck and head were relaxed...we just couldn't quite establish the real connection. That same nice, light hand on the leverage bit just completely clued her in, she tucked her nose and picked up the outside rein contact, right in timing with my inside leg. This is translating back to the plain snaffle...not a night-and-day improvement, but definitely helped. I had tried a bunch of bits and combinations of tack with her, the straight curb just demonstrated really clearly which "piece" was missing to get toward the idea of moving into the contact. While I had tried bits that employed leverage, they also all had broken-mouthed, "snaffle-y" elements to the action. The straight bit kind of isolated the idea of "contact" to a straight line for her. No signals about bending, or lateral independence. Part of the problem with most of the typical "English" leverage bits is that many of them incorporate a Gag action...which this horse completely doesn't respond to.

                                  That was a WOT. Best of luck. Point of post is to isolate the different elements of the issue, not look for a single bit which employs many elements at once.
                                  Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior