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How much would you price/sell/buy this horse?

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  • Original Poster

    #61
    Yes but she was fine with it selling this month and me signing a contract and responsible for all her fees, I was just waiting to sign that contract because she was away at a show. The day I was to sign was the day it all went haywire. She even held her from going away on a trial with another barn because she was held for me. Then someone calls who looked at her weeks ago and never responded back says she wants her, and she said her client did too. The lady said she would pay full price and its like how could she say no to that, even though she told me she was mine and wouldn't sell her out from under me. Those are her exact words. She now expects me to continue helping and teaching at the barn like nothing happened. I guess it is just a horse for her but it means much more to me.

    If the horse doesn't pass or things change (like they figure out her real age) now I am some back up option. I am not sitting so pretty with that.

    Comment


    • #62
      You know, at the risk of sounding a bit judgemental here, I might start to seriously question what kind of person you're working for. The sale is one thing, business is business, and an additional 5k is a lot in the horse market these days.
      That aside her business and personal ethics seem shady at best.. This certainly would be a red flag for me, and most definitely wouldn't be the type of person I was dependant on to write my pay cheques.
      If it were me, I'd keep things amicable, but quietly start looking elsewhere for employment. Just my humble opinion.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #63
        That is what I am doing. I already talked to another barn in need of help that I will be checking out on Thursday. It's going to be hard tomorrow acting like nothing is wrong. I hope I don't even have to discuss it and the horse is gone already or I surely will be crying.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #64
          Oh yeah she offered to pay me comission on the sale which I refused. I wasn't riding and getting out the horse to teach it anything, I was bonding with her and getting to know her. Money doesn't rule everything for me, if that were the case I certainly wouldn't be teaching kids how to ride as the pay is so low and goes just towards gas to get there and home.

          Comment


          • #65
            Good for you!
            Walk far far away from that situation with your dignity intact. It's an unfortunate situation for you, but eventually dealings like this will come back to haunt her.

            Still, sucks to lose a horse you grow to really love. Keep your head up, and eventually something perfect will come along. In the meantime, be grateful you're out of that situation.

            Comment


            • #66
              I know how you feel as I almost had a horse I really, really wanted slip through my fingers. That said, no contract was signed and you didn't have cash in hand. I can understand why the trainer would take a Full price offer over yours.

              I do still think the traine is lacking in integrity, though. She's now shown you a few times wht she's really about. It's up to you to believe her.
              Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
              Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #67
                Well the people who said they'd pay full price ended up making *gasp* an offer and my trainer told them to get lost because she agreed they could come try again/vet horse if they paid full. So now I am able to get her again but seem to iffy now after my heart felt like it was stabbed and stepped on. I cried two days straight like a big baboon over this ordeal and now everything is back on track. Uggh I dunno. I do like this trainer a lot, know she means well, just has the typical must make money trainer mentality they all have. So tomorrow I will ride miss mare again and see if those lovey dovey feelings come back. I hope they do.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Reality check time. Whether this was purely business or not, trainer still was careless at best with the horses age. Or was/is outright manipulative when you combine that gaffe with the sudden reappearance of a "full price" buyer who just as suddenly went poof when you did not up your offer.

                  Yeah, I don't know the trainer but have known enough of them over 40+years in 3 disciplines to detect at least a slight odor with a bad taste-coincidences like this often are not what they appear. Once the trust you place in a trainer comes into question? You never place the same trust, you'll always doubt.

                  Lots of horses out there including those with confirmed ages. And lots of them with more to offer you then one at an age when many start to retire and experience degradation in skills and ability For all we know, this one could be older then 17.

                  Things happen for a reason and this was a wake up call. Forget the lovey dovey feelings and listen to the alarm.
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I'd tread very carefully here. I've had this happen in horse shopping. Oh, there's another buyer lined up you better get them now. Or this person is going to pay this much line etc. Please please if you are going to consider this vet check this horse very well. Also have a vet try to nail down her age as best they can. Do a good ppe I have been screwed by a good friend/Bo and told a horse was 12. Didn't vet the horse, loved him dearly and trusted her. Horse was riding fine at the time. 2 months after purchase he went lame. Never could ride him again because of a knee injury that was very old! Spent about 20k over 3 years on knee surgery, injections, and stem cells just so he could retire with me comfortably and let's not forget when vet checked his teeth he was more like 27 yard old. Never would have known looking at him, he looked 12. Great shape, no old horse look to him at all. I would have still purchased him, but i would not have paid what I did for him! Reason I would have still got him is because I did love him and I was getting my own property so he could retire with me, big difference then having to pay board on a horse you can never ride and have to board another you can.
                    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      OP, can you afford a good PPE? Observation, flexions, basic x rays as indicated, basic bloodwork? Going to run you 600/800 absolute minimum or so depending on area, vet and the availability of diagnostic equipment (vets that carry it on their trucks usually charge more) and lab services.

                      We all know an at least 17 year old is not going vet "clean", most of them have old injuries and age related joint degeneration by that time and this one has not been in consistent work if I read your posts correctly. I would really want to be sure there is not an expensive booby trap there rendering this one almost completly useless if put in any kind of extended, regular work. IMO she is too old to risk trying for a foal, complications are more likely and if you never do get the paper issues right? It'll be a grade baby even if she does take and carry to term (and even healthy mares can run up some big vet bills relating to pregnency) plus those straws get pricey when it takes repeat visits and tests to see if she takes or not.

                      I think there are other horses out there for you, alot of them, with much less risk and doubt involved.
                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I'm so annoyed that my long post disappeared, but it was before the seller disappeared and I basically said that I'm sorry you are upset, but I think you dodged a bullet. Then I listed all the reasons why. Then I commented that I bet the seller disappears. The gist of it is I still think that is true.

                        Perhaps it will reappear, I don't have time to retype, but I think this is for the best and you should keep looking.

                        And now it is back! Crazy BB.

                        Oh wait....now it's gone. LOL!
                        Last edited by TrotTrotPumpkn; Apr. 18, 2013, 01:28 PM.
                        DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I have generally found, in my life, that if I have to try really hard to "make" something like this work or jump through several hoops for it to happen... well, then it's just not meant to be.

                          I'm absolutely not saying we should always take the easy road and avoid strife, but sometimes, all the signs are there, saying things like "Do Not Enter" and "Go Back."
                          If we have to nail on talent, it's not talent.
                          Founder, Higher Standards Leather Care Addicts Anonymous

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Too fishy for me, but if you simply cannot let that horse go, set up a THOROUGH pre-purchase exam AND get something in writing with the seller stating the agreed upon price (pending clean PPE) prior to the vet visit, with her signature on it.
                            "When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade."

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                              I'm so annoyed that my long post dissappeared, but it was before the seller disappeared and I basically said that I'm sorry you are upset, but I think you dodged a bullet. Then I listed all the reasons why. Then I commented that I bet the seller disappears. The gist of it is I still think that is true.

                              Perhaps it will reappear, I don't have time to retype, but I think this is for the best and you should keep looking.
                              It was a good post.
                              Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                              Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #75
                                I'm certain there was a buyer that came to look at her again and was going to vet her until the deal fell through. I asked a couple people if the horse was shown that know nothing about me possibly purchasing her and they all said yup. Plus it was on the day before activity board. I am sure when they realized mare had no papers they then lowered the offer. I am also pretty certain she is 17. Holsteiner Verband confirmed L fillies were born in 1996 and like 2003 or some other earlier year like that. Plus her brand # ends in a 6, which would be the year she is born. Despite 17 she doesn't look or act it. She is not a lazy ride which I like. Her engine does kick in when asked.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  What pattnic said.
                                  If dealing with this trainer and horse shopping experience is causing you some grief, time to move on.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Time to move on and take off the rose coloured glasses on this horse.

                                    While I think trainer was certainly underhanded about the deal, was she certain you were absolutely serious about purchasing for the $5,000 or do you think she was thinking it may fall through anyway seeing as you have to sell your husbands truck in order to purchase? That, for me as a seller, would probably be a big red flag that a buyer doesn't have the funds to actually buy.

                                    Also ask yourself the following: "If I have to sell something to buy something, what happens if something goes wrong? Do I have the funds to be able to immediatly bring in the vet/farrier/trainer etc"
                                    Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Did you read my post op? I bought a horse that I barrel raced with plenty of engine when asked. Believe me he was unreal. Looked amazing suppose to be 12 was to trusting in Bo/friend and he ended up being 27 and lame 2 months later! Be very careful here. Are you going to PPE the mare? You haven't answered that. Please do and check her teeth. I just know that there is more heartache if this doesn't work out and you can't ride the horse you just bought. If you need to sell a truck to pay for her, look at soothing younger. There is no guarantee in horses but it's more likely a younger horse will give you more years than one that is maybe 17.

                                      Also as mentioned before, without papers how do you know the if this is the mares real name from birth? How do you know if she was meant for breeding and named with the L for year or if she was actually named after the stallion? Or if someone just decided they wanted to rename her at 3 years old when they purchased her. There is no way of knowing for sure. Don't throw all your eggs in one basket on age just because of her name.
                                      Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        I am sure when they realized mare had no papers they then lowered the offer.


                                        papers are rarely a reason to lower an offer. The mare is aged. she's not a good choice for breeding anyway, so what difference do papers make?

                                        Originally posted by rabicon View Post

                                        Also as mentioned before, without papers how do you know the if this is the mares real name from birth? How do you know if she was meant for breeding and named with the L for year or if she was actually named after the stallion? Or if someone just decided they wanted to rename her at 3 years old when they purchased her. There is no way of knowing for sure. Don't throw all your eggs in one basket on age just because of her name.
                                        Exactly. There is no real proof of the horse's age because there are no papers and names can EASILY be changed. My TB has had 3 different names and we have his papers.

                                        Personally, as a seller, I wouldn't have been holding a horse for someone who needed to sell something in order to buy. I would be selling to the first person who had an acceptable amount of cash in hand for me. End of story.

                                        Interestingly, OP...you had a chance to see just how much you wanted this particular horse. Don't let pride get in the way of you getting her if you still want her. There are a lot of risks involved with buying an older horse*, but if you choose to accept them and deal with them as they come, you could have a nice horse on your hand.



                                        *moving up/doing higher than the horse is now, and/or breeding her are probably not realistic goals when considering the purchase.
                                        Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                        Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          I would say and do nothing. Trainer has lost two chances to sell an older mare. Wait for the price to come down more and then make another offer and see what happens.

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