• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What to do? Working student/half lease situation

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What to do? Working student/half lease situation

    So the arrangement: in trying to help 2 working students have as much opportunity as they can on their famiy's very tight budget, offered them a half lease on a horse. Horse cost very little, under a grand, so family's each paid for half of the horse, and then are responsible for dentals and 1/3 of any additional veterinary care horse may need. I pay for all of the horse keeping related costs, and use horse for lessons. Students work 4 hours a week plus one saturday a month, and this brings them one lesson a week, use of the horse, and first dibs to any shows.

    The horse, granted, has needed work. The fact that the horse is a project, and something that would take time and commitment, was discussed and accepted by everyone from the start (neither family was in a position to pay for a made horse). Student A has been amazing, comes and rides 4+ times a week, is very good at being told what to work on and why (when either girl is schooling on their own, I "conveniently" have work to do by the arena and offer help if it looks like they need it) and she puts in extra time and effort continually. Her parents frequently thank me for giving their kid the opportunities she has been given, when they normally wouldn't be able to afford even infrequent lessons. And for this kid, I am happy to do it and will continue to do so.

    Student B, although a nice kid and has talent, has needed constant, what feels to me to be, nagging. If left to her own devices, she will show up to work and ride during her lesson and that is it. We just finished spring break here and she didn't come down once to ride. Family has been known to voice that they wish she was progressing more quickly, which I can completely understand: they have been with this horse for nearly a year now and the horse is still needing work to be considered finished, but I honestly cannot afford to let this kid ride one of my schoolies for zero money and not a whole lot of work ethic. I have told them that I would completely understand if they wanted to try a different barn, that I understood their frustrations and wish the horse had been easier, too. They have chosen to stay (don't know if they have much choice, though). Kid and parents keep insisting she loves to ride and wants to go far.

    I tried all of the following last year, multiple times, to get this kid to accept the work and at least put in some effort:

    Told her that regardless of the level of the horse, she would still be expected to ride at least 4 days a week if she want to continue to show. Whether she rides a veteran schoolie or not.

    That like any other sport, she needs to ride to get better.

    Held open a time slot every afternoon when leasers can ride and school as much as they please outside if lessons.

    Told her that MAYBE if she rode more than once a week the horse may progress a lot quicker.

    Designed Goal sheets, with daily, weekly, monthly, and seasonal goal planning. Offered a gift card to the girl that accomplished monthly and seasonal goals (guess who that went to).

    E-mailing, texting, talking, talking, talking.

    The above tactics worked fairly well last year, but after taking the winter off, trying to decide how hard I am going to try this year. She has yet to voluntarily ride more than once a week, and everyone else has been in full training for a couple of months now.

    I am just tired of trying to get this kid to put in the work, tired of trying to figure out how to motivate her. Clearly, I need a different approach, or the enabling to cut off the arrangement.


  • #2
    Sit down and set minimum requirements you can live with. Say at this point, you cannot continue to keep reminding her and if she isn't able to keep on top of it on her own then you will take it as saying she does not wish the arrangement to continue.

    As a recent ammy who struggled to find opportunities as a junior and worked very hard at any I was given, I have little sympathy for those who do not put in the time.


    • #3
      Honestly there are so many deserving kids out there that are willing to work day and night for rides on a horse, that that's just plain unacceptable. You really need to let her and her parents know that you can't continue to give free rides without a minimum amount of work.


      • Original Poster

        Thank you, Rel6 and hunterrider; you both are fortifying my resolve to either get this girl to start proving she wants a ride and is willing to work for it, or for everyone to start thinking about moving on. It is very frustrating.


        • #5
          I agree with all said here except, how are both of them supposed to ride the horse 4+ times a week? Or is that 4+ times a week on school horses, etc? Maybe she only rides once since she knows the other girl is riding all the other days?


          • Original Poster

            Bedazzle, they sometimes overlap days, in which case each girl schools horse for 20-30 minutes or so the same day, rather than closer to an hour if not sharing that day. It's not ideal, I grant you, but it seemed to work alright.

            ETA; girls knew arrangment before deciding to lease, that just because one if them had already ridden didn't mean the horse couldn't be ridden twice.


            • #7
              I agree with the above posters. Sit down with her and her parents. Go over your concerns, exactly what you said above, and it looks like it is time for an ultimatum. I am on the other end of that situation, as the one leasing. I work it off, also, but I always ride the horse on my days and to the best of my ability. I have other horses to ride occasionally. Many kids would give an arm and a leg for that opportunity, and if one teen doesn't want to work for it, I am sure you will be able to another a deserving teen with good work ethic.


              • #8
                Originally posted by eastendjumper View Post
                Bedazzle, they sometimes overlap days, in which case each girl schools horse for 20-30 minutes or so the same day, rather than closer to an hour if not sharing that day. It's not ideal, I grant you, but it seemed to work alright.

                ETA; girls knew arrangment before deciding to lease, that just because one if them had already ridden didn't mean the horse couldn't be ridden twice.
                With that bit of info, then yes she needs to step up for sure!


                • Original Poster

                  Thanks, all! Will plan a chat here soon.


                  • #10
                    I seriously doubt said horse needs to be ridden 8x per week?


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by eastendjumper View Post
                      It's not ideal, I grant you, but it seemed to work alright.
                      Or maybe it is not working alright?

                      I know you are planning a chat with the girl and that is what I would have suggest.
                      If she is interrested in riding maybe there is something bothering her about the sharing the horse that way. Maybe they could ride the horse each 3 days a week?
                      Doesn't matter if she was told it would be like that to begin with, she couldn't know how it would be for real.
                      Maybe there is something going between your two working students. Maybe she feels the other one is prefered?
                      A little jealousy between tweens in frequent (and normal!), she could also possibly be in her teenager crisis.
                      ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                      Originally posted by LauraKY
                      I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                      HORSING mobile training app


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by WingsOfAnAngel View Post
                        I seriously doubt said horse needs to be ridden 8x per week?
                        If two days overlap, and they're only riding 30 minutes each, that's only 4 hrs a week. If they ride 1 hour on the days it doesn't over lap, then it's 6 hours a week. Not that much time for an horse in shape or in training. My hunter gets ridden 6 days a week for an hour, and a lot of upper level show horses (particularly show jumpers) get ridden or exercised twice in a day. As long as the horse is well taken care of and sound, I see no problem with 4-6 hours of work a week. And then less if this other WS isn't riding as often as she needs to.


                        • Original Poster

                          Alibi_18, you are spot in, there was quite a bit if drama between the girls, of which I heard about/ talked with them about frequently, and found solutions for the problems as they popped up. The girls were honest and forthright, which helped, and fortunately the sharing of the schooling time never became an issue. I certainly try not to play favorites, but I can see how that could be a factor and will check myself as I work with them.

                          We bought a second project horse about a month ago, that Student A is taking on, leaving Student B with sole lease benefits of the first horse. Her family and her were thrilled that she essentially has her own horse now, and it will make my life easier, too! But, despite this, the kid is still not riding outside of her lessons unless I say "Hey, its beautiful out! Want to ride?"

                          Disclaimer, too, talked with mom and kid over the winter break, when she wasn't even coming over to visit, how they were feeling about everything. They said she was needing a break but was looking forward to diving in again in the spring. At her last lesson, asked her if she was feeling good about the horse, specifically, and kid said she was feeling good about everything. I was looking for a clues as to why she wasn't doing more and didn't sense any red flags, but hopefully something comes up when we talk that can be addressed.


                          • #14
                            I have been there and dealt with both types. Have your talk with the rider and her family, but do not be surprised when things don't change. If things remain the same, draw your line in the sand, and enforce it. Life is too short. Focus your efforts and energy on the committed rider. They are hard to come by.
                            Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                            Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.


                            • #15
                              I wound have loved to have had that much ride time for that little of work growing up. My only thoughts are 1) any chance she may have gotten spooked by project horse? Even as an adult it's hard to admit, but if your riding with another teen there is always that pressure to do as well; 2) is she just being a distractible teen? Maybe her love of horses just is not as strong as other social etc pressures in her life. Hope you can get her on board, she will likely regret wasting such a great opportunity later.


                              • Original Poster

                                Thank you everyone for your posts. Yes, hopefully we find a solution soon!


                                • #17
                                  I'm going to be a little of devil's advocate....is it your "rule" they ride 4 times a week? And the horse is used in lessons? Just trying to get the whole picture. It seems like it is feeling to the kid as more of a chore, than fun. Then again, winter riding sucks, for some. Maybe the spring and summer will bring a beter attitude.

                                  It sounds like, in general, this was a 3 way win. The girls get to ride their "own" horse and you have a horse for lessons. Because, according to the first post, you were going to use the horse in lessons, even though he needed work. (?)

                                  Even if it was not a lease, some kids/people are more motivated than others. Yes, most of us would have killed for the chance this kid is getting, but who know what is going on in the teenage-hormonal mind.
                                  THe one thing I caution, don't compare the kids in the sit down meeting. That will not go over well, even if she sits there smiling.

                                  I'd approach it more as "I'm setting the show schedule for the season. Are you interested in showing?" Insert answer here. "Yes? OK, I think we need a game plan to get Dobbin and you ready for the season." "No? OK, well let's work out a schedule when you are going to get to come and ride so we don't schedule him for lessons blah blah.

                                  Good luck. I think you are very kind.
                                  Come to the dark side, we have cookies


                                  • Original Poster

                                    Thanks, Pennywell, you make very good points that I will keep in mind.

                                    Horse is used infrequently for lessons, mainly for students ready to learn a
                                    little bit about retraining a horse (ottb) and/or ready for a bit mor of a challenge than what my veteran point-and-shoot lesson horses offer. This spring, horse has been excellent and progressing much more quickly than last year, so I anticipate I will be able to use her quite a bit more soon; another good reason for letting Student A lease another horse, so we don't overload this one.

                                    It wasn't necessarily a set rule that they ride 4x a week, more of a request. I advised that they hack one day, dressage one day, poles/cavaletti one day, and then o/f work at their lesson. It was presented to them that this might be a nice schedule to follow to avoid boredom and to best try to give this horse a solid foundation, as well as give them the saddle time they should have to improve themselves.

                                    How do the other trainers on here decide how to handle these types of arrangements? Am I the only one who would like to see students that are both leasing and competing ride several times a week, especially when they come to you and tell you they would like to be competitive? I feel that teens, especially, seem to commit more easily if they have goals to aim for, but may have a hard time mapping out how to achieve those goals without a somewhat set schedule to follow.


                                    • #19
                                      You know, I feel your pain. I had a kid who boarded with me who had a fantastic pony. It was pulling teeth for her to ride and still is. She likes to ride, but its not THAT passion so many of us had as kids. She shows half heartedly (schooling shows, not circuit). She's there, but not THERE.

                                      It comes down for you (I think), do you have the time/desire/patience to have that kind of rider in your barn? If you do- great. Some instructors are ok with that. Some just don't have the time for the fair weather riders. And THAT'S ok! Trying to get a rider to be something she's not will make you both miserable.

                                      I think you are a very caring instructor to be thinking this through.
                                      Come to the dark side, we have cookies


                                      • #20
                                        Talk is cheap. Either the rider wants to come out to the barn & work & be with the horses or they don't. I think everybody says oh yeah they want it sooooo bad, but when push comes to shove only some are willing to really commit.
                                        "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"