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Concealing Past Injuries

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  • #61
    I would simply advise any potential buyer to talk directly to a seller if someone asked me. Saying "I won't discuss the horse" sounds bad as you said. But as many people have pointed out, it's not your horse, you're not involved in the care and even if the injury was public knowledge, I always find it comical how often public knowledge is 100% incorrect. A minor strain turns into a tear, a general NQR becomes a career ending injury, etc.

    I personally would be upset if I found out anyone was discussing one of my horses b/c quite frankly, unless they own the horse, they don't know what is going on and anything on their part is conjecture.

    (And lol sometimes the owners don't even know what is going on Usually trainer/vet have a better grasp!)
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    • #62
      Originally posted by FineAlready View Post
      Well, Lucassb, I certainly do not get involved in other people's discussions with their vets, and any information I have came directly FROM THE OWNER of the horse. And, actually, I said a lot of nice things about the horse as well. Nice enough things that the people ended up taking the horse on trial even knowing about the injury. But the horse didn't work out for completely unrelated reasons.

      The next time someone asks me anything about a horse I know, I'm simply going to say that I won't discuss the horse at all. I personally think that makes things sound even MORE nefarious than simply speaking honestly about the things that are pretty widely known about the horse, but that's what I'm going to do from now on. Screw it.
      Wasn't suggesting that you inserted yourself in the discussion - just making a general observation about these types of situations.

      From your post above, it seems to me that the buyer's trainer put you in an awkward position, and you were honest which is obviously reasonable under the circumstances, but now causing you grief.

      My stock answer when people ask for that kind of info is something to the effect of, "Suzy Owner is pretty hands on; she'd probably be the best person to ask about stuff like that... I don't see or handle the horse enough to really know about anything like that." Which happens to be true, for the record.

      Just my $.02.
      We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.


      • #63
        Originally posted by TBPONY View Post
        Yikes... Guess colic surgery is so common these days that the trainer clearly just forgot about it, or something.
        Actually...if they handle a lot of horses, yes, I wouldn't be surprised if it was forgotten. Especially over a year and half later and the horse re-habbed elsewhere.
        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **


        • #64
          Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
          Actually...if they handle a lot of horses, yes, I wouldn't be surprised if it was forgotten. Especially over a year and half later and the horse re-habbed elsewhere.
          This is true.

          And what people think of as an issue widely varies. I work in the health insurance field and occasionally have to discuss health history with someone. I can't tell you how many people will lead off with "I'm healthy...as a horse," only to dig a bit deeper and they've had a serious illness (cancer, heart attack, etc) within a few years.

          I imagine that line of thinking holds true with horses as well. The problem is in the past, so it's an out of sight, out of mind situation.
          Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
          Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


          • #65
            Originally posted by RockinHorse View Post
            While, I totally agree there should be full disclosure by all parties to a sale, I do not agree with other people chiming in on the medical information of a sale horse.

            I am very open about my horses, their injuries and surgeries because I would only sell with full disclosure. That being said, I can't tell you how many people are wrong about what has been wrong. I had a horse that hurt his hock. Two differnt people on two different occaisons asked me how is knee was doing .

            Also, most outsiders are not privy to all of the vet information and treatment, protocols and prognosis information that has been discussed with the vet.

            I agree with this concept.

            I also agree with the sellers need to disclose all information possible for the best interest of the horse.

            I think it's also okay to ask seller for all vet records. I realize those records belong to the seller and it is their right to offer them up or not. Any horse I have had that goes on to another home the records go with the horse.

            I know it's hard not to say something that is major for the protection of the horse and fairness to the buyer. But it is a transaction between seller and buyer. And agree with OP response if asked about a horse by a buyer to say, I am not going to discuss the horse at all. Hopefully that will raise a red flag to the buyer and they will further question the seller.

            I say we need to have something like they do for cars....

            Show me the HORSE FAX LOL
            Live in the sunshine.
            Swim in the sea.
            Drink the wild air.


            • #66
              Originally posted by FineAlready View Post
              If people were not lying sacks of scum, this really would not be a problem in the first place.

              There's coffee in that nebula.


              • #67
                As the agent, I personally love when the seller asks me to lie/exaggerate or otherwise hide a horses faults or vet history... Or asks me if its ok to just "not disclose" certain info. Of course it's not! And now you are fired!


                • #68
                  I haven't read all the posts, but I have an interesting saga attached to my horse with "prior injuries." Long story short, I was once not at all involved in his daily care, vet appointments, etc. I was at an A-show barn where I showed up and my horse was tacked and ready to go (I would also get "misc" charges on bills that turned out to be show meds, but that's another story!).

                  Anyway, Trainer and my horse did not get along very well for whatever reason, and after about a year and a half, my horse literally stopped performing for us. Trainer eventually told me he should be retired and would never be sound, due to a MULTITUDE of career-ending injuries. Trainer was very close with Vet. I actually just found a note today, written in 2011, from Trainer detailing all the things deemed wrong with my horse by Vet-- "advanced arthritis, all cartilage gone causing bone on bone contact in fetlocks and hocks, large chip in right front ankle, requires frequent hock, fetlock and coffin injections plus shockwave therapy, obvious suspensory damage in both hind legs...++++." It's two pages long.

                  I have since left that barn and moved across the county. I had a well-known and respected vet do a full lameness exam and x-rays of all four fetlocks and coffin joints, both hocks, etc. We could not find a bone chip, NO sign of cartilage deterioration, and he flexed MAYBE a 1/5 on his right hock and fetlock. The vet deemed horse one of the soundest 13-year-old jumpers she's seen. She would not even recommend injections at this point.

                  I suck at making long stories short. To sum up-- if someone asked me now if my horse had past injuries, I would definitely not describe the things my prior trainer and vet professed about him. It almost makes me wonder if they were looking at the right horse all that time I was at that barn (which was 2 years..?!). I'm still scratching my head about what the heck happened there! I've left a few messages for the vet to fax the original records, but haven't heard back yet.
                  Last edited by Rollie Pollie; Mar. 30, 2013, 01:43 AM. Reason: clarification