• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Disturbing info on New Jersey Trainer- Is this true?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Originally posted by mbm View Post
    ok, i want to get clear on one thing since i am now getting PMs. The guy took a free horse. it was given to him - since that is the case he has every right to do as he pleases with HIS horse. If the prior owners were concerned they should of had a contract that stipulated that they wanted first right of refusal.

    Once you give up ownership you give up any rights to control of the horse. the law is on the guys side. whether we like it or not. bashing him is just bad manners.


    the prior owners should of thought more before handing the horse over to stranger without a buy back contract in place - and in fact if the prior owners were so concerned they should not of sold/given away the horse - they should of kept it or leased it.

    as for FB - i dont post much there anyway and nothing that cant be "out there" it just never occurred to me people would do something like that - but having been on coth all these years i should of known
    Not really.

    If it is OBVIOUSLY a material consideration of the seller's that the horse get a good home, such that you know that the seller would not sell to you if you told them your true intentions, it is not acting in good faith to take a horse under promises of "trail riding home" and then sell to auction less than two weeks later. The promises of "trail riding home" are PART of the consideration/sale price for the horse. You can induce a buyer to lower their price if the promise of "trail riding home" is more important to them than the money they could get selling to a lesson barn down the road. Legally if they lowered their cash price to you because of the promise you made, you owe them the difference. Just because it is difficult to enforce doesn't mean you don't bear legal responsibility for making someone change their bargaining position based on your lie.


    Just because it is difficult to ENFORCE legally without written documentation, does not mean it is perfectly within everyone's rights to outright lie to seller to get them to sell you a horse. What is hard about this?!

    And aside from the fact that when promises become part of the "consideration" in a horse deal, there is both moral and legal (even if difficult to enforce) weight to them, I get a little tired of everyone bending over backwards to justify and explain away the absolute lowest common denominator of behavior.

    Jesus. It is WRONG to lie to people in order to get them to sell you a horse they would not otherwise sell you if they knew the truth.
    The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
    Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
    Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
    The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

    Comment


    • #22
      If the details are true and complete, then obviously he handled this in an unethical manner. We don't really know the trainer's side. Clearly if he didn't want to keep the horse, he should have contacted the prior owners to offer the horse back. The post implies that didn't happen, though we cannot be sure.

      The prior owners could have done more to protect this horse, but frankly it sounds as if they had enough to worry about.

      Edit: just saw meup's post. Yep, agreed 110%!!
      Born under a rock and owned by beasts!

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
        Jesus. It is WRONG to lie to people in order to get them to sell you a horse they would not otherwise sell you if they knew the truth.
        Exactly.

        Originally posted by mbm View Post
        also, i find it disturbing (but wish i had thought of it sooner!) that someone can take a private/friends only FB post and do a screen shot and then post it publicly.
        I think you are confused.This appeared several times on my Facebook feed, and I'm not a friend of anyone involved. It was shared widely, and I do believe that was the intent.

        Comment


        • #24
          If he was given the horse, I guess he did have the "rite" (as stated in the quote of his email) to send the horse to an auction. That said, as meup states, part of the reason for the transfer of ownership to this man was that the original owner thought he'd be safe and well looked after by someone involved with high end show horses.

          Racing folks have faced this for years. Keeping a horse on track is expensive and sometimes owners need to cut their losses so they give horses away. About a year and a half ago there was that situation with the girl in SEPA who was an active show participant and trainer/instructor who was using her "legit" business as a means of assuaging concerned track owners/trainers fears. She'd show them photos of her jumping 3' at a show on an OTTB and tell them that their horse will be given all the time he needs and will be brought along slowly until he finds his niche. If the horse was sore, he'd be in a killpen in about a week.
          F O.B
          Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
          Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

          Comment


          • #25
            Brandon Clinton needed a trail horse?!? Please. Any trainer has access to horses they can trail ride. Sounds like Brandon needed cash.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by mbm View Post
              as for FB - i dont post much there anyway and nothing that cant be "out there" it just never occurred to me people would do something like that - but having been on coth all these years i should of known
              Do What
              it's a public page from a Horsemen's Association ...
              Perhaps try reading for comprehension before accusing others of the unethical behaviour - actually I can't imagine why you would object about borrowing a facebook screenshot when you have no objection to someone offering a "good home" to a horse & then sending it off to a kill auction within a few days ...

              If you actually read the statements, it is a fairly straight forward account of the events - no hyperbole, no vilifying of the person involved ...

              Comment


              • #27
                I love you Meup. Totally agree. If I give a horse to someone in lieu of payment that's one thing, if I give them the horse at no charge for their use, that's another.

                AND It's quite easy to screen grab any pic you post, even Facebook or Photobucket. I did an experiment last summer to see just how hard it is to post a decent picture for say, a CL ad, and some Cother's screen grabbed it and worked on it in a couple of online sites while I worked on it in Paint. I was surprised how easy it was for them to import it, and also how hard it was to get a decent original in the first place.
                Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                Incredible Invisible

                Comment


                • #28
                  And again, the age old CoTH refrain GET IT IN WRITING. In this case, the sellers should have stipulated in the bill of sale that the horse was being given to the trainer only because he promised a trail riding home and there was no intention to resell the horse. If the horse needed to be rehomed at a later date, trainer PROMISES to contact seller.

                  This way if the horse gets flipped, the sellers have proof of breach of promise.

                  Now, looking at it from the trainer's jaded sociopathic viewpoint, he probably thinks he was doing the owners a favor by taking the horse off their hands and keeping them from having to make the decision to PTS.

                  Not all professionals are sociopathic, but they MUST be realists, and there are very few professionals who will turn down making a buck somewhere. A professional looking at "Murray" with his locking stifles and bucking is not seeing a wide range of potential buyers for him. A professional might use his/her professional judgement to decide that euthing was the best choice for a particular animal. And rather than spending their own dime for it, they MAKE money by sending them to auction.

                  I personally would not give this guy my business. He's a proven liar.
                  ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
                  Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

                  "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by mbm View Post
                    The guy took a free horse. it was given to him - since that is the case he has every right to do as he pleases with HIS horse.
                    Once you give up ownership you give up any rights to control of the horse. the law is on the guys side. whether we like it or not. bashing him is just bad manners.
                    mbm, I very respectfully disagree with your comment about bad manners. Taking in a free horse just to turn it around to Camelot for a little $ is perfectly legal, but if he misled the previous owners about his intentions, it's still a crappy thing to do.

                    "The law is not a ceiling of good behavior we require people to rise up to; it is a floor of minimally acceptable behavior beneath which we do not permit them to fall."
                    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Easy-K...22998204542511
                    http://www.easykeeperfarm.com

                    I can ride my horses without a sharps container.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Very sad that people are so willing to scam others like this.

                      Of course it is his horse and he has a right to do with it as he chooses. What he did that was wrong is promise something he clearly had no intentions of doing to get the people to decide to give him (versus someone else) the horse.

                      Clearly a case of too good to be true.
                      So frustrating.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by mbm View Post
                        ok, i want to get clear on one thing since i am now getting PMs. The guy took a free horse. it was given to him - since that is the case he has every right to do as he pleases with HIS horse. If the prior owners were concerned they should of had a contract that stipulated that they wanted first right of refusal.

                        Once you give up ownership you give up any rights to control of the horse. the law is on the guys side. whether we like it or not. bashing him is just bad manners.


                        the prior owners should of thought more before handing the horse over to stranger without a buy back contract in place - and in fact if the prior owners were so concerned they should not of sold/given away the horse - they should of kept it or leased it.

                        as for FB - i dont post much there anyway and nothing that cant be "out there" it just never occurred to me people would do something like that - but having been on coth all these years i should of known
                        I'm sorry, but I have to correct this. should HAVE****

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I got the same public post on my facebook. I didn't get the impression that it was supposed to be a private post. I shared it as well...

                          Originally posted by Midge View Post
                          The trainer named is Brandon Clinton. The link I posted was from a public page.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Well, is it crappy that he took the horse to auction? Yes. Illegal? Nope. Does it make him a person to not have train your horse? IMO that wouldn't effect me sending him a horse or not if he is a good trainer.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I have met him, and am not surprised in the least. He is a wannabe, and seemed pretty clueless when I watched some of his "lessons". Big on draw reins and other gadgets, small on horsemanship. Lucky for us, he no longer comes to our barn, but trains out of Anjelhart now.
                              Celtic Charisma (R.I.P) ~ http://flickr.com/photos/rockandracehorses/2387275281
                              Proud owner of "The Intoxicated Moose!"
                              "Hope is not an executable plan" ~ My Mom
                              I love my Dublin-ator

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I cannot see how anyone can defend his actions.

                                He took a horse that was "offered free to a good home" and told the owners (who had come upon hard times due to health) that the horse would be used as his personal trail riding horse. Then, less than 2 weeks later, he's selling it at Camelot Auction.

                                Do you think if he'd gone to the owners and told them that he intended to resell the horse at auction that they would have given him the horse? And who knows--perhaps they did have a contract.

                                No matters what "rites" (his spelling) he had at as an owner, this shows an obvious lack of ethics, honesty, and horsemanship. These type of people should be outed and I have no respect for anyone who does business with them.

                                In my world, the welfare of the horse trumps the rights of the owner.

                                The only way we stop these type of people is to give others a heads up so it doesn't happen to other horses. Unfortunately, I've heard of this situation happening quite a bit.

                                Here's his website: http://www.bclintonsporthorses.com/

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I know of a big name California trainer who used to do this all the time, comete with bringong his kids out to try the horse... I believe he just had an equipment trailer go missing...

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Anyway you look at it this is fraud by definition.
                                    In an age when scientists are creating artificial intelligence, too many of our educational institutions seem to be creating artificial stupidity.—Thomas Sowell, Is Thinking Obsolete?

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      And the sad thing is (well, lots of sad things, but...) the original owner said they looked for the best situation for this horse, and thought they picked the right one. They could have chosen someone else on the list. They certainly didn't just dump the horse to the first one knocking on their door. I think it's just terrible.
                                      Last edited by ParadoxFarm; Mar. 25, 2013, 04:50 PM. Reason: Not OP, but original owner.
                                      “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
                                      ¯ Oscar Wilde

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        I've seen him at some shows - I wasn't impressed and I sure wouldn't send anything to him for training.

                                        People have the right to do as they choose with their horses but to willfully deceive people already experiencing turmoil is reprehensible.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Couture TB View Post
                                          Well, is it crappy that he took the horse to auction? Yes. Illegal? Nope. Does it make him a person to not have train your horse? IMO that wouldn't effect me sending him a horse or not if he is a good trainer.
                                          Really??!! This would make me seriously wonder if I was getting the training I was paying for. Not to mention if other unethical practices might be happening to my horse, if it were in his training program. Most people with moral deficiencies spread their failings across the board.
                                          "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
                                          Rainy
                                          Stash

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X