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Injecting a horse with a syringe

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  • Injecting a horse with a syringe

    It troubles me that the average Joe can inject an animal with anything they see fit. But perhaps what troubles me more is that they can do it without a clue of technique on their own animals without repercussion.
    If you are green enough to not know that you hit or didn't hit an artery-ding, ding, ding,- you don't know what you are doing.
    When you hit an artery the blow back and color of the blood is considerable. The only time you couldn't know is if you are giving a minimal dose of something, like say a 1/10 cc of Acepromazine or a similar drug. If you are injecting a drug such as Adequan ( not an IV drug) or Legend, it is a large enough blow back that you would seriously recognize it, and feel it as well.
    If anybody thinks they injected something into the artery and maybe they didn't know it?? Well then you don't know enough to inject a horse. Leave it to the professionals
    www.midatlanticeq.com
    Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
    November 11-13, 2016

  • #2
    Even some vets will say there are certain kinds of injections (like IV antibiotics) that have to be done very carefully otherwise it causes serious damage.

    Comment


    • #3
      i can't resist? what else could you inject a horse with if not a syringe?

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      • #4
        Precisely why my vet does ALL of my IV injections. One of the newer vets in the practice suggested I learn to do IV. Eh, no thanks. For the times my horse needs it, I'll have the vet out. (My horses have never needed an IV injection without a vet call in the past 15+ years).

        I'm completely comfortable with IM and have been doing them since I was 12. But as a horse owner, I make sure I can afford to have the vet out for the important things--like something that requires IV.
        Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
        White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

        Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by fair judy View Post
          i can't resist? what else could you inject a horse with if not a syringe?
          I took it as the OP referring to IV injections.
          Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
          White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

          Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            One can inject a horse with a dose vial orally, etc. I chose to clarify what the topic is about. Its not about injecting ankles or hocks as done by a vet. Bite me Judy.
            www.midatlanticeq.com
            Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
            November 11-13, 2016

            Comment


            • #7
              I know on my part, I had my vet teach me how to do IM injections and I only did them after calling said vet to discuss the injection dose and necessity. At the time, pony was getting banamine and I was disturbingly unaware that it comes in other forms. Wish I had known that at the time. I felt comfortable with my knowledge level but even then, would NEVER have given IV meds. IM is risky enough. I understand not wanting to have the vet out for things that need to be given IM especially if it is a regular or frequent medication dose. And some people are comfortable doing their own vaccs and don't feel the need to have the vet out for that. Each person has to decide what they are comfortable with, but when it comes to IV I personally feel like the vet should be handling that.
              Bolter Bolter Bolter!!

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              • #8
                I also find it troubling when someone says they were injecting "either Adequan or Legend." Seriously? As the OP pointed out, one is IM & one is IV. So if you don't even know which one you are giving, you are WAY underqualified and should leave ALL injections to your vet.
                Topline Leather -- Bespoke, handwoven browbands & accessories customized with Swarovski crystals, gemstones, & glass seed beads. The original crystal braid & crystal spike browbands!

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                • #9
                  I agree with your point, and even highly trained professionals can screw it up. I had a vet once hit an artery giving my horse a shot and it was a scary moment!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    On the farm I think it is a valuable skill to have, especially if you live a distance from the nearest vet.

                    At shows, I wish that all injections were required to be given by a licensed veterinarian, and recorded and reported to the show management. Anyone found injecting a horse themselves should be DQed and suspended.

                    "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by chunky munky View Post
                      One can inject a horse with a dose vial orally, etc. I chose to clarify what the topic is about. Its not about injecting ankles or hocks as done by a vet. Bite me Judy.
                      i was kidding..... but good point i never would have thought about using a syringe for an oral dose. the only way i could think you might punch through and not notice would be to have it be as you were already injecting and the needle slipped through.

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                      • #12
                        I'm a horse professional that has worked in numerous facets of the industry- trainer, veterinary technician (licensed), groom- you name it, I've done it. To be honest, a lot of us use legend, banamine and other injectable medications on our horses. Because a vet charges a farm call and then a fee to inject the drug on top of the cost of the drug itself, it is often cost effective for us to be taught how to correctly administer IV medications and purchase the drug from the vet or from a pharmacy with a prescription from our vet. There are multiple medications that I feel comfortable giving- such as banamine, tranquilizer, antibiotics and legend. If a horse is colicky, knowing how to administer banamine while your vet is on the way may be necessary and very helpful. Being able to administer tranq to a horse that needs to be body clipped can be quite useful. However, you should be taught by a practicing veterinarian and should feel VERY, VERY comfortable hitting the vein while also having been monitored many, many, times. The same goes for IM injections. You would complain about a nurse who uses your arm as a pin cushion, wouldn't you?

                        On the flip side, accidents can happen. I have seen even skilled veterinarians hit the carotid artery and have seen some pretty crazy things happen. Horses generally have seizures, rear up and flip over, lots of things. I have never actually seen one die at the end of a carotid hit, but have heard that it has happened with Rompun,some antibiotics and some drugs that slow the heart rate considerably (I won't go on to name drugs that do this- that is what google is for.)

                        The thing with something like legend is--it's really thick. Anything that goes in the carotid is going straight to the brain. If the horse was going to react, it would likely start seizing and crush the person at the end of the needle before the entire 4cc syringe was emptied into it.

                        Where am I going with this? (You may be wondering) ... I am just saying that if you are going to administer drugs IV you should know this stuff. You should know what might happen if something should go wrong and you should know how to react. A typical first response to a situation where you think you might have hit the carotid would to be immediately call your veterinarian. If you were pushing legend or banamine and your horse dropped dead or started seizing, you would take the needle out of the neck, save it to be tested and hope that your licensed, educated veterinarian could explain what happened to you. God forbid your horse died, at least you would have the piece of mind to know exactly what happened. Giving an IV drug without a veterinary license is a risk. Accidents happen, especially with risky things. We need to step up as professionals and take accountability for things that we decided we were qualified to do.

                        I am not advocating that every trainer or barn owner learn how to do an IV injection. But I do think that having someone in the barn who is educated in the technique, has experience, and who feels comfortable doing one, can be useful. I also think that we as trainers and horse owners need to know our limits. Some drugs such as oxytetracycline need to be given extremely slowly and cause contusions on the vein if they are given outside of the vein (say the needle slips in or out suddenly if the horse moves.) Something like this is best given by a vet. If you at all feel uncomfortable giving the injections- call a vet. If the horse is hard to inject- call a vet. If there is any little question- call the vet. Use your brain.

                        As for doing this at horseshows---there are such things as banamine paste, bute pills, SMZ tablets, and multiple other non-injectable options. If your horse is so sick or uncomfortable it needs a whole list of meds or needs it given IV, don't show it or talk with your veterinarian to come up with a proper plan. Again, use your brain. We don't want to be a sport known for drugging our partners. Be responsible horse owners, trainers and riders.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fair judy View Post
                          i was kidding..... but good point i never would have thought about using a syringe for an oral dose. the only way i could think you might punch through and not notice would be to have it be as you were already injecting and the needle slipped through.
                          LOL yes, but you wouldn't call it "injecting" in that case. I mean, when I take an oral dose of cough syrup, I'm not injecting myself with it. Even if I suck it out of a syringe for kicks.
                          Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A good trick is to always pull back. I always pull back on injections even if given in the haunches just out of habit of being a vet tech for years. Pull back and you get blood yur in a vein.
                            Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The pull back method works great. Also works in a vein. When I first was learning, the vet showed me how to take the syringe off the needle and leave the needle in the vein. If the blood drips out slowly, you are in the vein. If it spurts to the beat of a heart, you are in the carotid and get the hell out.

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                              • #16
                                http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...-inject?page=2
                                Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Yep ponytrnr. Get out now lol
                                  Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    The point was to diferentiate this thread from one about injecting hocks and ankles, morons. What would you like the title to be? Frankly, there are 30-50 cc dose syringes that are frequently used orally. Go find another way to try to look like an experienced, intelligent horse person that you are certain is smarter and has more years of experience than me and continue to pick the name of the thread apart instead of address the issue. Take the time to see what I am trying to say here than using the time to make yourself look important and in the know.
                                    www.midatlanticeq.com
                                    Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
                                    November 11-13, 2016

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Ponytrnr, the pony moms that just start injecting away have never been taught. I rest my case. Its not like any of this is that difficult, they just never get taught and think that they can play vet and trainer with very little experience around horses. Anyone that drops a horse and doesn't know if they hit an artery is pretty new to veterinary animal care. Simple as that.
                                      www.midatlanticeq.com
                                      Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
                                      November 11-13, 2016

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Whoever is at the end of the needle needs some sort of training. My own mother owned my barn when I was growing up. She bred ponies and started me out in my riding career. She was not comfortable giving IV injections, even though she was shown by a vet many times. She used her own best judgement as to what she was comfortable administering. She will give IM injections IF ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY and is fine giving pastes and other oral meds. This is her choice based on her own comfort level. She was more than a pony mom, but she was not a big named trainer or manager of a huge farm. I think it all comes down to people using their darned brains :-)

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