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Pain or confusion?

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  • #41
    Unless videos were removed I see only two vids of this horse and they're the ones posted in the first post. The jumping ones I see are a completely different horse....


    • Original Poster

      Well I came on to post some loose pics of him in the round pen. I had no clue the other vids had posted (apparently they post directly from my phone, who knew). I will say that others are absolutely correct and he never should have been jumping. It was against my better judgment and I shouldn't have gone with the crowd.


      • #43
        I didn't see anywhere in the video posted where it looked as though the rider was even ASKING the horse for a trot. It seemed as though in a few places that the horse MIGHT have been considering a trot, but the rider never got off his back and instead kept pushing him forward with his seat, and as someone else mentioned, the 800 foot reins didn't seem to be doing anyone any favors. I'll admit though that I'm no professional.

        I definitely agree with everyone that you should not rule out pain as the root cause, but I think total confusion could be a contributing factor. I was completely confused just watching the whole thing about what exactly was expected from the horse during that ride.


        • #44
          Totally different horse in the round pen, but not 100% sound either. Especially noticeable tracking right. I dislike your trainer for the way he sat on that horse, threw away the reins, and dug his seat bones into his obviously sore back. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is poor riding and horsemanship!
          If he went much better in the dressage saddle, and goes 90% better naked, you need to start with his back. Just my 0.02.
          He seems like a really sweet and certainly forgiving animal. I hope to see this resolved soon!


          • #45
            God knows I am NO expert, but for some reason I was thinking "stifles" watching that video. A couple others have mentioned them as well so maybe I am not crazy. Your poor horse, *something* certainly is bothering him and I hope you are able to figure out WHAT. Personally, I've never seen a horse move like before and definitely not a TB (though Western Displeasure horses come the closest). I would not be riding him until you get to the bottom of the situation. And YES, a chiro checkup is a Very. Good. Idea.
            "Horses lend us the wings we lack." ~ Pam Brown


            • #46
              Pain... Another option is kidney stone.


              • #47
                Whoa, that horse hurts somewhere. I'm going to join the "diagnostics necessary" crowd. At my barn, that type of behavior would have a rider jumping off, pulling tack as they walked to the barn and calling the vet for diagnostics ASAP.
                It's either neuro (which can, surprisingly, come and go in the early stages) or pain in back/SI/stifles (at least that's where I'd start, but I'd get myself to a very, very good sporthorse vet soon). The sooner your money starts going to actually fixing the problem instead of piddling around with, "I'll try this, I'll try that," the faster you'll resolve the problem and, in the end, the cheaper it'll be.

                Just from watching the first video, I would NOT take that anywhere near a jump. Horses should trot... even track horses with track feet trot, they have to jog to warm up. All the time. Not just if things go right, they aren't particularly sore that day, or their neurologic system just happens to be functioning correctly that ride. Horses should trot, trotting is a natural gait.

                Just want to add that the male rider was very distracting, leg swinging, hunched over in the tack, and driving his seat into the horse while not providing the horse with any rein contact whatsoever... this would not be someone I'd want on my green horse. I'd begin looking for a more solid rider to give my horse a good start. A barn where people "pressure" you into jumping a horse who shouldn't be jumped due to possible pain/neuro issues and lack of experience isn't somewhere I'd like to board, either... this sounds like a general safety issue.

                I understand that you aren't rolling in the dough, but the safety and health of you and your horse come first. Nothing about this seems very safe or healthy to me.


                • #48
                  I think he has multiple issues. Watching him in the round pen he looks lame to me although with all the camera movement I can't quite figure out which foot. Maybe a front. And then he has a very long back and he's carrying himself inverted so for sure he has some kind of back issue. I wouldn't be riding this guy. Find out the problems and resolve them for him. He's already proved to you that he's a kind hearted guy that will go even in pain. I agree with others about your trainer too.
                  You don't scare me. I ride a MARE!


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by hrford View Post
                    Well I came on to post some loose pics of him in the round pen. I had no clue the other vids had posted (apparently they post directly from my phone, who knew). I will say that others are absolutely correct and he never should have been jumping. It was against my better judgment and I shouldn't have gone with the crowd.
                    If your vet watched that same round pen work & doesn't see pain or lame, then you need to bring in a different vet for this horse - I watched the u/s footage in the OP & really just keep seeing the same thing with this horse - except he's obviously even more uncomfortable u/s (didn't see that rider helping him at all either, so I'd also be looking for a different trainer/rider for the horse - when horse is feeling better, that is).

                    I looked up your history on this horse, are you still using the "slipping saddle" (& no, a breast plate is NOT any kind of answer, it does not assist with actual "fit" of the saddle, though it may physically restrict movement of the saddle) - if yes, that may certainly contribute significantly to the "plus rider" issue.

                    You mention that horse was "sound" when he came off the track - how did you assess this? did you pull blood?
                    (of course horse may've slipped in the trailer or field or stall, etc)

                    Do you have a good chiro/equine therapist etc that you can have out? I'd invest in bodywork for this horse as he just looks very sore.


                    • #50
                      I would try to rule out anything physical. That said, I have seen horses that will do this that have nothing wrong with them...they just are so into cantering rather than trotting, so they offer a semi-canter gait hoping to be allowed to canter off. It can be boredom, that it is easier for them to canter, a bad habit learned, that they are a little on the hot side, they aren't really going forward, etc. In other words, many reasons. If it is not physical, then the horse can be taught to trot but it will take a little work.


                      • #51
                        If you are using that trainer then I think you're in my geographic area (unless the trainer moved). Please take your horse to Dr. Keane for a full diagnostic workup. He is clearly sore and uncomfortable. If anyone can get to the bottom of it, it's Dr. Keane and although it's never cheap he understands budgetary limitations and will come up with a plan for you. Really, he's more than worth the trailer ride and I think this horse needs a high caliber sports medicine vet if you're not getting answers looking for the problem in bits and pieces with the vets you're currently using.
                        "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"


                        • #52
                          vxf111, Based on the video, I recognize the barn and "trainer", I beieve she is in Southern Maryland. I have a good recommendation for a vet if she's interested. This has also been posted in the racing section, some interesting feedback over there!


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Acertainsmile View Post
                            vxf111, Based on the video, I recognize the barn and "trainer", I beieve she is in Southern Maryland. I have a good recommendation for a vet if she's interested. This has also been posted in the racing section, some interesting feedback over there!
                            I consider that roughly the "same geographic area." I know it's a hike, but it's worth it for a really top vet and it's not SO far.

                            Interesting to hear where the trainer landed. He was in NJ for one hot minute and then I never heard anything about him after that.
                            "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by jen-s View Post
                              I'm going to be honest and I truly hope I don't offend you, but somebody has to say it...

                              1) Get thee to a better vet NOW
                              2) Fire that trainer. If your trainer isn't competent to see that something is really freaking wrong (and you have gimpy horse + bad saddle + poor training + god know what), then it's time for a new set of eyes.

                              I cannot fathom any reputable or knowledgeable trainer thinking a horse going like that required anything other than an immediate vet work-up....not a work-out. Period. Full stop. Do not pass go.



                              • #55
                                Getting up there to Dr. Keane would be about a 3 hour drive one way which is probably going to be a stretch in this case. I agree that Dr. Keane is one of the best. We use an excellent vet who has worked with racehorses, the only vet in the area that I would trust.

                                Luis seems to pop up all over the place!


                                • #56
                                  Ok, that horse is uncomfortable. I live and board in Maryland (although a bit farther north) and haul my horse up to Kevin Keane's for lameness. I discovered it ends up being cheaper to haul up there, get a correct diagnosis and treatment plan, and moving on with my life, than having a regular vet who's not a lameness expert come out repeatedly and not resolve the issue. If your vet didn't see lameness then you're throwing good money after bad. We joke about how many people haul up to Dr Keane's from our barn, we think he needs a branch office in the tack room.

                                  I also agree that the trainer's not doing the horse any favors. Btw, I didn't see if you said how long he's been off the track and if he had a real let down before starting work. That solves a whole bunch of issue.

                                  By the way, it's about 2 1/2 hours each way to Kevin's office but it's still cheaper than getting a wrong diagnosis repeatedly


                                  • #57
                                    I agree! I would not ride this horse again until a vet looks at him...

                                    He is very uncomfortable! Look at his ears as well.

                                    It's sometimes easier for them to canter, rather than trot when they hurt behind...

                                    Jen-S is right with her comments...

                                    And I might add, why is everyone laughing in the first video!


                                    • #58
                                      Dr. Kent Allen in Middleburg, VA is also a really good vet you should consider. I agree with the other posters re: the trainer. I could barely watch. Even if the horse was confortable, the fact that he just came from the track would make me want to stay off his back until he was stronger.


                                      • #59
                                        The reasoning behind a better vet in the area is because this looks like a classic case of sore hocks. I've seen it over and over having ridden racehorses for over 25 yrs at the track. He last races in December, it's now March, he's due. Have his hocks done, take care of his ankles and give him some very light excersise and I'm betting she'll see a totally different horse.

                                        I'm not saying that he'll need his hocks done every 3 months from this point, nothing they will do with him will be as strenuous as being in training to race. I've had horses that have needed their hocks done maybe once a year, and maybe not. Just depends on whats going on in the joints.


                                        • #60
                                          Agree with Purepony. Can you afford a bone scan? Mine started getting odd that way and it turned out to be a bruised hind coffin bone from kicking the damn stall. We got the whole work up with 2 excellent vets before we figured it out. And make sure there isn't a wicked pulse going on in any of the feet.