Am I nuts, or is this trainer just the new normal?

[Jack16]

No lesson horse should be drugged! Period. THIS is what is wrong with our sport!

Agreed.

[sandsarita]

Can I ask where which barn your friend is at? I am assuming by your location you are in TX hill country. I tried to send you a PM, but mine wasn't allowing me to see it correctly. I just moved from there about a year ago and I can guarantee that there are better barns in the area than what you are describing. Have her look around, observe lessons at other barns. And no, they do not all "drug" their lesson horses.

[Event4Life]

For me personally, but-ing just so a horse is sound enough to ride is not okay, but that is personal preference and I know it is not out of the norm at lesson barns.

I find it hard to believe you can't find a safe lesson barn that doesn't bute/otherwise dope their horses. It is out there, somewhere!

I stopped at 'trainer wearing flip flops and texting every 5 minutes.' NOT OKAY. I've seen some messed up levels of acceptable teaching practice in riding instructors, but this one might take the cake. Mom needs to find the kid a trainer who has safe ponies and knows how to teach. It should not take 2 years to get a kid over a cross rail, especially if the kid wants to ride!

[Tha Ridge]

No lesson horse should be drugged! Period. THIS is what is wrong with our sport!

Really? So a 20-something-year-old lesson horse who enjoys his job can't get a little bit of bute every day? Come on, it's not so black and white.

[Snowfox]

Gosh, I sure hope you NEVER take any pain killers when you get up a little stiff.

There is nothing wrong with a little bute to help with getting a little stiff aches.


Do you really have an issue with hormonal help? So to you it is wrong that many women take BC pills to help curb their monthly issues too?

I'm not saying I won't medicate my horses if needed but I won't put students up on them if they are medicated. I've been teaching for 33 years, I have 30 horses on my farm. If my horses are in pain, I don't use them. If my horse is to "hot" for a rider I don't put them on him. The majority of my lesson ponies are mares and I've never had one that is "mareish" If the weather is too bad to ride, I postpone the lesson. I don't bring in and out lessons horses seasonally, I breed my own ponies, train them myself, know their abilities and limitations, & keep them for life. Safety always comes first. Short cuts and GREED have no place in a professional lesson establishment. If you need to drug your horse to be sane or sound you have NO business putting anyone up on them.

[Appsolute]

I am pretty anti "drugging" when it comes to horses. But I have NEVER heard of a large lesson barn "doping" their horses!

Most do not need tranqs (like a shady trainer might do to a show hunter) as they are getting plenty of work packing kiddos around all day. Yes, some may receive some pain killers - as the quiet ones are usually the older ones, who have much more mileage on their legs.

Current lesson barn sounds like a disaster. Kid isn't excelling, place is dangerous, kids over mounted. Sounds like mom is trying to vilify the other barns, as sometimes it is hard to admit you have made a mistake by turning a blind eye for two years - and change is difficult / uncomfortable.

But it is time for mom to step up - and make that change for the sake of her child.

[Stushica]

I've seen quite a few "trainers" teach like this and it always makes me grit my teeth. I vote new trainer ASAP.

Also this is a little OT but Lucy sound a bit like a girl I give lessons to, she's been riding over a year and can solidly groom/ tack/ care for a horse, but once on board even slow steady eddy types she looks terrible, we do lunge lessons, no stirrups, bareback, pony yoga, two-point, everything I can think of and she's still essentially a terrible rider: However, she loves it and keeps trying, personally I'm almost in awe of her persistence. She and I are currently looking for a free lease or older horse that she can have to allow her more saddle time and the ability to go on trail rides etc.

Maybe if you can get a new trainer in addition to finding a steady eddy she can just go play on it will help her out? Saddle time imo is the best thing possible for any rider.

[Snowfox]

Really? So a 20-something-year-old lesson horse who enjoys his job can't get a little bit of bute every day? Come on, it's not so black and white.

Do you know what daily bute does to your horses stomach?

[trubandloki]

Do you know what daily bute does to your horses stomach?

Make broad generalizations much?

Some horses do fine on it. Some do not. Why paint them all with the same brush.

How about this question for you - Do you know what not having a job does to the old schooley who really liked working?

[Tha Ridge]

Make broad generalizations much?

Some horses do fine on it. Some do not. Why paint them all with the same brush.

How about this question for you - Do you know what not having a job does to the old schooley who really liked working?

[Snowfox]

Make broad generalizations much?

Some horses do fine on it. Some do not. Why paint them all with the same brush.

How about this question for you - Do you know what not having a job does to the old schooley who really liked working?

Too bad you don't find out how your horse will react until it's too late. Colic etc is easier to prevent than it is to cure. But I realize people who drug their horses will use any excuse to rationalize it.

[mareslave]

I witnessed a 5 yr old child killed in a "lesson" . No amount of lawsuits will ever bring that baby back. Tell your friend to get her daughter out of that barn now.

[Finzean]

Make broad generalizations much?

Some horses do fine on it. Some do not. Why paint them all with the same brush.

How about this question for you - Do you know what not having a job does to the old schooley who really liked working?

^ This makes sense.

" But I realize people who drug their horses will use any excuse to rationalize it."

^ This reflects a VERY narrow view of true horsemanship.

My daughter rides retired FEI horses who exist on some sort of joint cocktail among other things....thyroid meds, etc. They would all be on these meds whether they did lessons or not. The horses having a reasonable job that they enjoy - what horse wouldn't love being groomed, loved on, and plied w/horse treats?? - keeps them from being dumped at an auction or standing stiffly in a field because they don't get the cocktail, wondering where their people were after a lifetime of being show horses; or given to some "trustworthy" person with a large farm for retired horses only to hear about dead & starving horses at that same farm on a BB such as this one. Trust me - no one is getting rich giving lessons off the lesson horses DD's barn. Using them gives them a purpose and it is recommended by veterinarians that horses with certain soundness issues continued to be used at reasonable levels to keep them healthier. A horse that does a couple of w/t lessons a week and might need a little pharm support the day after...well, that might be okay with that horse. Managing horses is never black and white.

Thus far - unless I missed it - the OP did not qualify the "doping" statement. And the mom may be wrong in her use of the word or be basing it on something she thinks she saw or whatever. It ain't necessarily "Breaking Bad."

[Tamara in TN]

It's kinda weird, because this instructor is herself a nice girl and a wonderful rider. I get that the trainer biz is tough and the lesson kids are her bread and butter, but I also get that she might be stringing my friend along to keep revenues up. Nice lady or no, after what I saw the other day, I am anxious for the safety of the child and the sanity of her mother.

I wanted to tell you first that I enjoy reading your blog when I can. As for the barn,before I became a farmers wife,I ran a children's training barn based out of my long time employers barn.There was no real Pony Club presence here and so I did the best I could with the British Pony club manual and we had three days of riding and one full sat of theory in the classroom on the farm.

As it was also 4H based we had public speaking w.in the group as well as guest lectures.15 hardcore kids and about 20 good horses(some farm owned but others leased to us by the boarders who were delighted to see "their baby" carrying around someone else's "baby")
it was truly the happiest time of my life before being married.

Anyway,my boss, the owner is a military man and things were rarely shipshod in the way you describe.There were also among the kids those gifted for riding and those whose parents saw it as free baby sitting (we charged nothing for it)
but even among the less gifted those who stayed had horseman skills learned if not inherent...being 4H however no one could enter the full program unless they were in 4th grade and their siblings could enter a abbreviated program called "Cloverbuds"

well anyway...I don't know if there was any point to this rambling other than a memory lane drive for me but there comes a point where babysitting with horses must be separated from actual learning and training and teaching.
best
Tamara

[Linny]

QUOTE:It's kinda weird, because this instructor is herself a nice girl and a wonderful rider. I get that the trainer biz is tough and the lesson kids are her bread and butter, but I also get that she might be stringing my friend along to keep revenues up. Nice lady or no, after what I saw the other day, I am anxious for the safety of the child and the sanity of her mother. "

Wanted to add that not all good riders make good instructors. Some who are very good have little patience with novices or kids or riders who are nervous. I have found that "natural" riders have a hard time teaching because they didn't have to work up methodically, they just "got it."
It's easy when running a business to look at every client as a walking checkbook. Those that aren't going to move up to lease, buy, show etc are nursed along to keep writing checks. Sad but it happens, often.
I'd also be put off my the unprofessional attitude. I don't expect every barn to look like a showplace. I don't mind a trainer in jeans. I don't think a polo shirt is required. I do think that an instructor should always be dressed to get on a horse if needed, with a helmet at hand, boots of some sort on the feet. Unless a crisis is brewing there is no need for a trainer to have their phone in hand during a lesson. It sounds like this trainer sets a low standard for herself and those around her wallow in it. I don't care if she's an Olympian or a Hunter Derby champion. He barn is toxic and dangerous. Get your friend out of it!

[InjuredAlter]

I'm not saying I won't medicate my horses if needed but I won't put students up on them if they are medicated. I've been teaching for 33 years, I have 30 horses on my farm. If my horses are in pain, I don't use them. If my horse is to "hot" for a rider I don't put them on him. The majority of my lesson ponies are mares and I've never had one that is "mareish" If the weather is too bad to ride, I postpone the lesson. I don't bring in and out lessons horses seasonally, I breed my own ponies, train them myself, know their abilities and limitations, & keep them for life. Safety always comes first. Short cuts and GREED have no place in a professional lesson establishment. If you need to drug your horse to be sane or sound you have NO business putting anyone up on them.

Wait, so I take anti inflammatories, get human versions of hock injections in my hips and shoulders, and go through a variety of treatments daily to keep me sound enough to compete for my collegiate team.... I like my job, and would be devastated if I had to retire due to my 5 injuries. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to "do my job" too??

I see nothing wrong with giving lesson ponies bute. If the pony is happy otherwise and enjoys its job, a little bute will do a lot less harm that taking them out of work forever.

Eta: exercise is good for joint problems. When I'm forced to take time off my hips and back hurt a lot more than when I'm active.

[The Crone of Cottonmouth County]

I'm not talking about bute. My pal started Lucy out at The Big Show Barn several years ago. She began hearing through the mommy grapevine that the lesson horses -- even those ridden by adults -- are routinely drugged with ace. She directly confronted Lucy's instructor about it and was told "it might be true but you didn't hear it from me." I didn't want to believe it, so asked around the few H/J contacts I have, and was informed, whether rightly or wrongly, that the practice is standard at that barn, and indeed that ace is pretty rampant nowadays in the H/J world generally. Short of pulling blood, I don't know how else my friend was supposed to either substantiate or disprove the rumor. She had to go with the information she had, so she switched to the aforementioned texting trainer who, whatever her faults, at least doesn't sedate her horses.

However, my intention was not to start a debate about the merits of drugging lesson ponies. My friend doesn't want her kid at the big name barn on a drunk pony, or with a distracted trainer on a pony that is too hot. I just thought if some of the CoTHers agreed that her current situation is unsafe, she would feel better about pulling Lucy outta there.

[analise]

I'd say...I had instructor who got into the rut of sitting down and flipping through like a Dover catalog and looking up from time to time to be like, "heels down! shoulders back!" and not doing much in the way of actual instruction. I found myself a new instructor pretty quickly.

So anyway, even if that was the only thing you mentioned in your post, I'd be saying your friend ought to be finding another barn to ride at. I can't imagine the only choices are "unsafe barn" or "drunk ponies barn".

[rabicon]

Ace would be a deal breaker for me sorry

[Linny]

For the sake of "insurance" many barns use Ace for beginner lessons. I'm not taking about drunken ponies but enough to assure that the horse isn't going to terrify anyone. I'm of two minds. Lesson barns operate on slim margins and can't just go get different horses/ponies to assure the right array for all situations. If you have a 3 child lesson of W/T riders learning to canter it's easier to have order in the ring by assuring that the sometimes devilish pony doesn't get frisky when beginner loses balance or someone opens the arena door without announcing themselves. Taking the edge off can help if a kid is moving to a hotter or more challenging horse. Again, I don't mean daily Ace and I don't mean an elephant dart-full either. Before moving from a beginner horse the kid should be able to manage the "unprepped" version of the horse with ease.

Honestly, though I don't like it I can understand it and I think that a better barn, better instruction and a slightly buzzed pony sounds like a better option for this child.