• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

GM's column in Practical Horseman, Mar. '13

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    In looked at the pics and idk. I usually always understand and agree with him but those 3 horses had about the same jump IMO. The chestnut looks like he needs to be schooled more for fitness but legs were all about the same. I also wonder why he thought the paint wasn't groomed well. His white was white and looked very clean and nice. The 2nd picture IMO was actually the worse i thought. Knees were uneven on the horse and he hung a bit also and just looked like he really wasn't using himself correctly. This months really confused me. Makes me wonder if he has ghost writers once in a while.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

    Comment


    • #22
      Ugly falls can happen at any height and in fact at lower heights, where novices are riding they might be more common that at bigger fencer where at the the riding is better.
      Can a Premium member step up ad post a pic? I was surprised because of the 4 horses (two look like ponies actually) I thought that this one looked like the one I'd most want to ride. His jump looks slow and lopey and his forearms are parallel to the ground and while he's not super tight, he's easily crossing the spread of the oxer. I don't have the pic here, but if I recall he might even be starting to unfold his legs. He looks like a reasonable match for his rider. In fact, maybe because he looks like one I used to ride/show, I got the vibe that he was a bit of an "old pro-stepping down the ranks" kind of horse.
      F O.B
      Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
      Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

      Comment


      • #23
        I actually didn't think the horse in question was much worse with his front end than "Alluring Punch" who can be seen in the "Photos" section to your right and who was apparently praised for his scope and good jump at the RRTP 110-day challenge.

        ----------------------------------------------------------------------->

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by SnicklefritzG View Post
          What gives with him this month? Do we all have to look like runway models before we can be worthy of being looked at?
          Certainly not...and you are only seeing what you want to see as this month his highest praise was for the overweight rider. He liked her A LOT.

          I agree with his evaluation of the horse in question. It will probably be just fine at 2'3" and so, but I wouldn't want to ride that horse to a fence of any size (3'+) and definitely wouldn't want to jump it over fixed obstacles that won't fall down if/when something goes wrong.

          GM doesn't evaluate horses for jumping over tiny jumps. He evaluates them with an eye to large fences...whether or not that particular horse will ever be faced with a larger fence or not.

          Originally posted by rabicon View Post
          I also wonder why he thought the paint wasn't groomed well. His white was white and looked very clean and nice.
          While the white was clean, his coat was very dull. Any horse can be shiny with the liberal application of elbow grease. This horse was not.
          Last edited by RugBug; Mar. 4, 2013, 02:07 PM.
          Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
          Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

          Comment


          • #25
            I thought the same thing Fine Already! The difference is that AP is a green 4yo and the horse in the PH looks like he's at the opposite side of his career. One would asume that AP is being judged as a "prospect."
            F O.B
            Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
            Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Satin Filly View Post
              GM demands functional perfectionism. We've known that for years and I respect him for it. It's his job in this column to point out anything less than that.
              Regardless if you agree with his comments or not, one would know the above referenced quote and why send a photo that is less than perfect - you will get GM advice.

              If you are not familiar with his style then you must live under a rock.
              Live in the sunshine.
              Swim in the sea.
              Drink the wild air.

              Comment


              • #27
                I have to honestly say that I sometimes have the same quizzical look on my face when comparing horses, this month was no exception. they all looked pretty much the same to me.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Linny View Post
                  I thought the same thing Fine Already! The difference is that AP is a green 4yo and the horse in the PH looks like he's at the opposite side of his career. One would asume that AP is being judged as a "prospect."
                  Yeah, I guess. Shrug. I don't think either one looks particularly "dangerous" or particularly fantastic. Both look "cute" and useful to me.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Originally posted by HRF Second Chance View Post
                    I have to honestly say that I sometimes have the same quizzical look on my face when comparing horses, this month was no exception. they all looked pretty much the same to me.

                    That's kind of what I was getting at. I didn't see a huge difference between them so not sure why the difference in harshness

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      But don't you see? That's the point.

                      HE sees the difference. He is more knowledgable than us. So we ought to study the pictures and match his comments to them and try to learn what he is trying to show us. Rome wasn't built in a day. But if we do this every time we have the opportunity, we will have that Aha moment that makes it clear\.

                      Don't just look at the legs. Study the back and the neck and the shoulders. Notice where the horse took off and where he will land. George sees all these things at a glance and his impression is immediate and based on watching thousands of horses jump. It is very difficult to teach judgement....it takes a lot of exposure. It is what separates the horsemen from those who need to hire a horseman for their opinion.
                      "Over the Hill?? What Hill, Where?? I don't remember any hill!!!" Favorite Tee Shirt

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I haven't seen the photo or read the comments...

                        Did he actually say that the horse looked dangerous? Or just not seriously athletic and that he wouldn't want to jump it over a stiff vertical?

                        There's a very large range between unsafe and not athletic. Athleticism is a cumulative effort over a fence including neck, back, etc. And to George a stiff vertical is probably over 4'.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          @kmwines: If I recall correctly, what GM said was the following "Horse #1 is borderline dangerous".

                          @Claudius: I get why he does these columns - to help educate and who better than him to educate us. However, what I was trying to get at is that his comments about some of the horses left me scratching my head. The comments were pretty strong, with respect to horse #1 and I just don't see it. I feel like I'd want to ask him a few more questions to understand where he was coming from.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by SnicklefritzG View Post
                            @kmwines: If I recall correctly, what GM said was the following "Horse #1 is borderline dangerous".

                            @Claudius: I get why he does these columns - to help educate and who better than him to educate us. However, what I was trying to get at is that his comments about some of the horses left me scratching my head. The comments were pretty strong, with respect to horse #1 and I just don't see it. I feel like I'd want to ask him a few more questions to understand where he was coming from.
                            Maybe he doesn't actually make the comments anymore and has someone else do it since he's so busy..???? That would explain the wonky comments
                            Live in the sunshine.
                            Swim in the sea.
                            Drink the wild air.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by doublesstable View Post
                              Maybe he doesn't actually make the comments anymore and has someone else do it since he's so busy..???? That would explain the wonky comments
                              I don't believe this for a second. Agree with him, don't agree with him, but he's an ethical man, and I don't believe he would still put his name on the column if it were being ghost written.
                              http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

                              Originally Posted by JSwan
                              I love feral children. They taste like chicken.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by doublesstable View Post
                                Maybe he doesn't actually make the comments anymore and has someone else do it since he's so busy..???? That would explain the wonky comments
                                You obviously don't know him. MGP is dead on - if he didn't write it, or at the very least say it to someone else for them to write it for him, his name wouldn't be on it.
                                Not all who wander are lost.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I am going to have to go buy the magazine now, as I let my subscription lapse, as I'd love to participate more thoroughly in this discussion.

                                  One of the many things I love about GM is his uncompromising attitude about jumping form. I was mentored in the horse biz by someone who felt the same way, and if a school horse didn't have a good front end and reliably snap its knees no matter what, it became a flat and trail only horse. This attitude was probably influenced by a fox hunting as well as showing, and those schoolies were also expected to take care of students in the hunt field. So I am a bit of a perfectionist about jumping form as well. Watching the unrated divisions or the low divisions at unrated shows bothers me because I see a lot of horses that are unathletic or limited or "safe enough for the 2' 6" or "okay for the eq but not the hunters" - those phrases usually translate into "Something I wouldn't jump over a crossrail in flat cups, let alone a solid fence."

                                  Of course there's a place for the limited or less athletic horse, lots of people get their start on them. But if there are no GMs around to tell people the horse is limited or borderline, and that to progress they need a more athletic partner, what then? Do they find out by crashing or wrecking?

                                  off to find a copy of the magazine....
                                  Last edited by McGurk; Mar. 5, 2013, 11:28 AM.
                                  The plural of anecdote is not data.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I'll have to go look too. Maybe tomorrow but I'll get back on and comment.


                                    BTW, I have the absolute cutest little now retired Hunter mare with an adorable head, neck and throatlatch and snappy knees, everybody loved her, even GM was kind. BUT he also remarked she had a "sucker jump", all in front and nothing following thru from behind. He said he would use her with a good trip at 3' but she had no business at 3'6".

                                    I ran home deflated and looked at my videos...he was dead on.
                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      I was confused by that comment as well. The horse isn't an A hunter, but he didn't look unsafe to me. If anyone can explain why GM made the comment he did, it would be much appreciated. I'm not doubting GM's expertise, just looking to understand how he came to the conclusion he did.
                                      Against My Better Judgement: A blog about my new FLF OTTB
                                      Do not buy a Volkswagen. I did and I regret it.
                                      VW sucks.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        GM does not grade on "the curve". He evaluates against the ideal and has seen hundreds of examples of that ideal and thousands and thousands not so ideal in the 50+ years he has been a professional.

                                        He does not say you cannot use the less talented horse lower but you need to know it's limited and what the possible result of exceeding those limitations can be.

                                        IME he ALWAYS can find something he does not like or that could be better-even in Olympic riders and International star horses. Thats why he was the chef for so long, you cannot improve unless you know what you lack and GM is just the one to point that out.

                                        IMO some trainers need a wake up call too instead of I'm OK, you are OK and everything is hunky dory that will 55 for the coaching and 350 for the show charges.
                                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Ok I went back and re-read it. Yes, it's true. I have the PH at my desk but that's only because I read it on the treadmill. One gets bored.....

                                          Anyway he doesn't seem particularly fond of any of them this month except the last one. He sort of bashes them all for the same thing, just seems a bit more extreme on the first.

                                          I am with amastrike as far as wanting to know WHY he feels the horse is dangerous. I've seen plenty of dangerous. These seem capable. Not super fancy but capable.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X