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Questions about showing with my trainer - advice please

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  • #21
    Originally posted by sammicat View Post
    Okay, so I spoke with my trainer today about the upcoming trip and here is the deal:
    - As mentioned, she wants to do the shipping, her horse and mine. She will not go to the show if I ship because she doesn't make enough money on the per day training fees she will be charging me and needs to augment her earnings with the shipping. The funny thing is ... two people will be riding her horse, but, I'm certain one of the people will be paying nothing and the other person will be paying much less. She said this person can't really afford to pay much. Further, I have my doubts whether she will be charging these people the same training fees for the full trip.

    I feel a little taken advantage of ... and my DH says "don't go!". Any thoughts ... I like my trainer, and really didn't think that she would do this.
    This is where you have a decision to make. If you purchased a trailer and intend on shipping yourself to save on costs... then you have to tell the trainer that you can't have an expensive piece of equipment sitting unused just so the trainer can make the extra profit on shipping her own horse.

    It's not really your concern what other clients pay to use the trainer's horses or services. But if the "deal" she offered you is not palatable (ie, you feel you are subsidizing the other riders' expenses) then your DH is correct.

    Personally, I wouldn't go under those circumstances. However, if I *really* wanted to go, I might tell the trainer that I totally understood her situation, and ask her to recommend who you could show with if you go solo. A good professional will have enough contacts to send a client to school and show with another trainer if they decide not to attend a particular event.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina

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    • #22
      Well, your trainer has given you a clear choice. I have to say I'd let her stay home. It's one thing to cover expenses, but entirely another if your hunch is right and she is cutting the other riders a break on your dime. Bad business.

      If you want to go, haul yourself and pick up another trainer to coach you for the show.
      Patience pays.

      Comment


      • #23
        Seriously? Sounds like basically your shipping fees would be subsidizing two other people's show weekend..... (I'm sorry, 3, since trainer wants you to give the groom a freebie too!). Why aren't they paying $600 to haul her horse to the show since they are the ones showing it? And assume groom isn't going to chip in half for your horse, are they?

        Haul your own horse to the show and have fun. Maybe you'll meet a trainer who doesn't treat you like a scholarship fund for the have-nots.

        Jennifer
        Third Charm Event Team

        Comment


        • #24
          I agree... Go without her. I suspect she'd still end up going because she's told the other two clients they can go. I like the way Luccassb phrased the reason:

          "If you purchased a trailer and intend on shipping yourself to save on costs... then you have to tell the trainer that you can't have an expensive piece of equipment sitting unused just so the trainer can make the extra profit on shipping her own horse."

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          • #25
            Originally posted by sammicat View Post
            - As mentioned, she wants to do the shipping, her horse and mine. She will not go to the show if I ship because she doesn't make enough money on the per day training fees she will be charging me and needs to augment her earnings with the shipping.
            This is crazy talk. Either go on your own or dont go. I also like the suggestion that she recommend someone ELSE to coach you for the weekend. If she needs to do the shipping to "make money" she's doing something wrong. And, it does sound immature.

            Otherwise, what she is charging or not charging the others isnt your business. Be classy and dont be bothered with any of that.

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by ActNatural View Post
              This is crazy talk. Either go on your own or dont go. I also like the suggestion that she recommend someone ELSE to coach you for the weekend. If she needs to do the shipping to "make money" she's doing something wrong. And, it does sound immature.

              Otherwise, what she is charging or not charging the others isnt your business. Be classy and dont be bothered with any of that.
              Thanks for the advice ... you and everyone else are absolutely correct that it is none of my business what is being charged to other people. I was just so shocked by my trainers stand point and rationale that I couldn't help wonder why? She really is normally a very logical and mature trainer so this is just ... well ... disappointing. Oh well ... I'm still trying to decide whether to go or not. There will be other shows.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by sammicat View Post
                Thanks for the advice ... you and everyone else are absolutely correct that it is none of my business what is being charged to other people. I was just so shocked by my trainers stand point and rationale that I couldn't help wonder why? She really is normally a very logical and mature trainer so this is just ... well ... disappointing. Oh well ... I'm still trying to decide whether to go or not. There will be other shows.
                The right way to account for issues like this is to have an additional fee if less than x number or riders are attending a show. Trainers have to ensure that they do not lose money by being away for a weekend, and this is the most up front and honest way of doing so.

                Hiding it in other fees just makes it easier for clients to not realize what they are paying for....and easier for the trainer to cover all their bases in unethical ways.

                OP, unfortunately, your trainer can treat you differently than the other clients...maybe she struck a deal with them you are unaware of and they are helping her in some way or maybe she's just an unfair person. That's life.

                That being said, having YOU foot the bill of making sure she makes money that weekend is not appropriate.

                She should charge a fee for so few attending, and then if she chooses to give her other clients a deal, SHE's the one that takes that hit, not you.

                I would let her know you cannot afford her hauling fees and that you will be hauling from now on. Then I'd closely examine other areas and make sure you're not being taken advantage of elsewhere - and also be aware she may say you can't show unless you haul with her. Unfair, (unethical?!), but her barn, her rules, and you may need a plan B.

                Good luck, and sorry that she is being this way!
                It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by sammicat View Post
                  I'm certain one of the people will be paying nothing and the other person will be paying much less.
                  I want to pay less than nothing! Sorry OP, this made me laugh, I understand you are saying less than YOU (which is unfair).

                  Originally posted by ElisLove View Post
                  4 classes should be 2 jumping and 2 flatting or I personally thinks it's far too much for a 5 day show.
                  And yet when I was giving lessons, had horses and ponies in many divisions at local shows, two o/f and one flat, ground poles up to 2'6''. They never seemed unfairly taxed.



                  OP, go to the show unless you are someone who NEEDS a trainer present for assistance. She will come or not, but you shouldn't be footing her bill. Ridiculous.
                  COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                  "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by TheJenners View Post
                    And yet when I was giving lessons, had horses and ponies in many divisions at local shows, two o/f and one flat, ground poles up to 2'6''. They never seemed unfairly taxed.
                    2 o/f and one flat a day is fine. Did you not read my post? You can do multiple divisions in a 5 day show as long as they are scheduled in a way that you do no more than 2 o/f fences classes a day (except maybe one day). Groundpoles aren't jumps and neither is anything in and around the 2 foot mark, so you can pad things one way or another. And if they are lesson horses/ponies they are probably used to going more than once a day at home which makes a difference as well.

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                    • #30
                      Sounds like your trainer expects you to sponge up the some of the costs for the other riders which is very unprofessional and unfair to you. Most trainers that I know of have a set fee for trailering, coaching, horse show expenses, etc. and stick to it regardless of who the student is. I would either go to show by yourself (you should easily be able to find another trainer at show willing to coach you) or not go at all.
                      Happy Hour-TB
                      Cowboy Casanova - Brandenburg

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I read it. Basically you are saying a warmup, two o/f classes and one or two flat classes is too much work for a horse and he isn't able to do anything else. Tell that to Eventers and Foxhunters, who gallop and jump for significantly longer than eight fences x two. And if you want to tell a medium pony that anything in the 2' category isn't a jump, well...he's a pony, he might disagree. I had horses and ponies in three or four divisions at a one day show, sure they started at ground poles, but ended higher, with several riders and a warm up for each one.

                        Not picking a fight, I'm just disagreeing with you. I personally have shown a horse in more than one division at a one day show (which seems so...derogatory, but whatevs), in fact I have a fond memory of finishing a 2'9'' division and being asked if I wanted to go into the 3' since there were only two others in it...and I did. My horse was fine, but she was a PONY, so maybe that's different.
                        COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                        "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

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                        • #32
                          Would you by any chance happen to be this trainer?

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                          • #33
                            You've got time to find another trainer for this event, and you have a trailer so you could trailer out to see other trainer for a few lessons prior. If I were in your shoes, I'd be outta there.

                            I've been out of the show world for a few years now, but when I was showing as a junior, my trainer posted her rates on the bulletin board in the barn January 1st each year. It showed cost of lessons, cost of hauling, cost of coaching at a show, and what supplement had to be paid if there were fewer than 4 people attending, as well as hotel reimbursement expectations depending on number of people going to the show. It was crystal clear and there were no surprises when you received your invoice.
                            Strong promoter of READING the entire post before responding.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Count me in with everyone who says go on your own *or* ask her to recommend a trainer. I really like the second option, actually, because you still get to go to the horse show and she gets to see that you are serious about showing but not willing to be a blank check. When I was a junior and showing more than others in my barn, my trainer was the one to suggest I go to the shows she wasn't attending with another trainer, and she was the one to arrange everything.

                              There were times we went to big shows with only a few horses, and the way it was made financially practical was myself and the trainer grooming, doing set-up, etc (I was the only client who was free during the week since my employer was the barn). I even shared a hotel room with her on weeknights since those days tended to be pretty manageable with only a handful of horses and no people to look after.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by strides View Post
                                Would you by any chance happen to be this trainer?
                                Me?? No, strides, I am not. Just disagreeing with something else entirely. I already told the OP to go without the trainer.
                                COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                                "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I think Lucassb's post summed up exactly how you should handle it.

                                  I completely understand that there is a certain level of business whereby it might not be worth it for a trainer to travel to a show. Also, obviously (and there's nothing nefarious about this) trainers have a vested interest in maximizing profits from traveling to shows to compensate for missed lessons/training and paying assistants to cover the work at home. Hence your trainer wanting you to share your horse with another rider (more show fees) and wanting to take your horse on her trailer. However, you are well within your rights to want to save costs by trailering your own horse.

                                  I think it generally best to try to stay out of what "deals" other people have, but I also think you are a pretty normal customer to be offended to find out that your trainer appears to be planning to bill you a disproportionate share of costs. As I said, I try to stay out of other people's deals, but when you are all traveling to a show together and the group costs are not going to be shared fairly that really does not go over well.

                                  Personally I wouldn't bother sharing the horse with another rider. I think it really depends on the horse and the riders and the classes as to how many classes are too many, but I think that doing some grooming may not be a fair trade for getting to ride a nice horse at a nice show, again, you might be putting yourself in a position where you might end up shouldering an unfair proportion of the costs. Also, I agree that hunt horses and event horses do a lot more work than jump 8 little jumps a few times over, but OTOH, 5 day horse shows with warmups and jumping each day can tire a horse out. Once you make that commitment, it might be hard to back out if the footing is crappy, your horse seems tired, etc.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I would let her know that since you purchased a trailer you would like to ship your own horse, you understand that she will not be making any money and will be unable to go and you would like her to suggest someone who can coach you at the show. There isn't any reason for you to pay shipping costs even if you were splitting them evenly with the other riders since you have your own trailer. Bearing the burden so the other riders can show cheaply is not very professional but I wouldn't address that issue.

                                    Then expect her to implode.

                                    If she's a good trainer she'll suggest someone for you. If not you can start shopping.
                                    http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by hrford View Post
                                      Go without your trainer! She's telling you she's using you for money. I mean it's great that she was upfront about it, but no, you can get there on your own, and you aren't going to pay her fees, that's just stupid, it's why you bought a trailer.
                                      Exactly this.

                                      She has admitted to you that she is making money off of hauling (hopefully she has her commercial driver's license...or whoever is doing the actual driving...because if they don't, it is illegal) and that she wants to haul because she needs the money. Too bad, I say.
                                      Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                      Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by TheJenners View Post
                                        I had horses and ponies in three or four divisions at a one day show, sure they started at ground poles, but ended higher, with several riders and a warm up for each one.

                                        Not picking a fight, I'm just disagreeing with you. I personally have shown a horse in more than one division at a one day show (which seems so...derogatory, but whatevs), in fact I have a fond memory of finishing a 2'9'' division and being asked if I wanted to go into the 3' since there were only two others in it...and I did. My horse was fine, but she was a PONY, so maybe that's different.
                                        It's one thing when it's one day. It's something different when it's a potential 5 days. I don't know of anyone, eventers and foxhunters (though I don't really know too many of these) that would do as much as you are indicating if it was 5 days in a row. Eventers do two phases of jumping: stadium equals 1 class. XC, depending on the level, equals anywhere from 1.5 jumper classes (.5 to account for terrain) to 2-3 classes.
                                        Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                        Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

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                                        • #40
                                          Well, one thing...your trainer is being honest and up front with you about what she needs to make her travel worth while, be thankful.

                                          Be equally as up front, if you want to go haul yourself and go without trainer (if you are ok with that) or ask if there is someone she/he can recommend and get you in contact with at the show and if she has an issue with it.

                                          If they can recommend someone and she is ok with it then all is good. If not then you have another choice to make.

                                          As for the classes, it sounds like a lot but only you and your team will be able to tell that.

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