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Horse Ridden by Keenan Dropping at WEF yesterday?

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  • I don't think that management can request that a specific horse be drug tested. Different entity but I know a show manager who tried to get a CA tester to test a specific horse and was turned down. A really really small time manager before anyone gets too excited.

    I have had horses tested by USEF or CA for the following reasons: horse looked excited leaving the ring after a jump off, USEF drug vet was also my trainer's vet, I happened to walk out of the ring when the tester looked up after finishing her cup of coffee.

    The official show vet and the USEF drug testing vet are two different people.
    The Evil Chem Prof

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    • It's amazing considering the variety of opinions expressed here, but I can't agree with even one If I could, I would give a thumbs down to every single post on this thread

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Peggy View Post
        I don't think that management can request that a specific horse be drug tested. Different entity but I know a show manager who tried to get a CA tester to test a specific horse and was turned down. A really really small time manager before anyone gets too excited.

        I have had horses tested by USEF or CA for the following reasons: horse looked excited leaving the ring after a jump off, USEF drug vet was also my trainer's vet, I happened to walk out of the ring when the tester looked up after finishing her cup of coffee.

        The official show vet and the USEF drug testing vet are two different people.
        Your right. I would correct and say USEF testing not show management. But maybe if they did test more or horses in question there wouldn't be so much "rumor" of use of drugs in the Hunters? Just thinking about it.
        Live in the sunshine.
        Swim in the sea.
        Drink the wild air.

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        • Testing is random. Sometimes it really has no rhyme or reason (meaning it can be the winner, or the last place guy). I don't know that I've ever seen a horse pee on demand, either...but a number of them do pee as soon as they can when they get back to their stall.
          "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique

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          • Original Poster

            Originally posted by Discobold View Post
            It's amazing considering the variety of opinions expressed here, but I can't agree with even one If I could, I would give a thumbs down to every single post on this thread
            Then perhaps you could share your opinion(s) so others could gain some insight and maybe consider factors/ideas they have not thought about before. I know that I'm always interested to hear each and every side of a story.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Discobold View Post
              It's amazing considering the variety of opinions expressed here, but I can't agree with even one If I could, I would give a thumbs down to every single post on this thread
              I see diversity in the posts. Why do you hate 'em all?

              Or is it that you think the thread shouldn't exist?
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

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              • It would be difficult to get owners to sign for the horse considering many of them are across the country, out of the country, etc for some of the bigger horses/pro rides. There are also LLCs, syndicates, groups of owners that would make that hard. Trainers who are making the decisions should be held responsible.

                Drugging/calming agents definitely seem pretty prevalent, all over when vets/companies are spending mucho money to devise and come up with ones that won't test, i.e Carolina Gold.

                Testing should be combination of random and targeted. Every winner/champion/reserve champion should be tested along with the randoms. That way everybody gets tested. Not sure how much that would increase testing prices and such, I'd be interested to see how much USEF spends on that program if anybody has the link to the budget. And then that leads to people finding even more interesting/sketchy ways to alter performance that don't show up on the testing panels.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mvp View Post
                  I see diversity in the posts. Why do you hate 'em all?

                  Or is it that you think the thread shouldn't exist?
                  No, I wouldn't be opening this thread if I thought it shouldn't exist. I've been out of this scene for almost 20 years so am just here as an observer. I keep hoping someone will say something that will enlighten me, but nothing so far It's like some of the posts are circling the runway but won't land or land in the wrong place. I don't feel qualified to give an opinion, but I'll make one observation: it's quite possible that a horse is given things that have a calming effect (e.g., Depo, Robaxin, oral magnesium) and will still pass a drug test b/c those things aren't illegal or aren't tested for by the USEF.

                  Comment


                  • I went and looked at that "other" site and the initial post never mentioned drugs. regardless, the eyewitnesses were laura bowery who was kind enough to jump in and try to help. the horse went down and flailed and then got up and back down again defecating and urinating all over himself and thrusting its legs like it was in a seizure, rolling up on its back, uncontrollable to get near. scott stewart and kim stewart were supposedly there. no one did anything but the bowery lady and it wasnt even her horse. it went on so long that the show vet came and it took the vet 10 minutes to get there. oh yeah, david burton jr was there. an event that goes on so long that the vet takes 10 minutes is no bee sting. if it was a big sting they had to give it something to counteract.

                    oh and the announcer last night said keenan is trained by andre dignelli but thats not whats on the entry blank. i guess we will see what the drug test shows and who gets in trouble for not listing themselves as the trainer when they really are. that is fraud and they should be suspended from the usef for their deceit.

                    and yes usef can drug test anything suspicious
                    Anthony 'Tony' Soprano Sr.: If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them

                    Comment


                    • Jonesy- where are you getting this 'eye witness' report from?
                      .

                      Comment


                      • How about stopping all the speculation. Most of the posts hedge their comments using words like - apparently and so on. Some one mentioned how many dollars the connections have - Do you really think they would risk the rider?
                        Maybe you should hold your gossip until you know the facts. All of you that actually saw this - did you report the FACTS to The Stewart? I believe the Stewart could make inquiries about the horse if he/she had facts about the horse's condition.
                        http://STA551.com
                        845-363-1875

                        Comment


                        • Off course a bit, well commenting on peeing in a cup comment above. I do know a lady who's horses pee on command lol. She trained them and it's the strangest thing i think I've ever seen. Before they ride she makes them pee and before they get on the horse trailer they have to pee. It's a trip.

                          On what happened. I'd hate to speculate. It would be nice to have comments from someone that was actually there and witnessed what happened. Until them I don't want to comment for sure. I did check out the horse in question on heritages website since he is for sale. The videos posted on there from last year seems like he goes very nicely. I missed last nights performance so I can't compare how he goes in those videos to how he was then but the videos shows a nice forward horse.
                          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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                          • ^There are comments from Lillie in the article on the COTH homepage...
                            http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
                            Proudly blogging for The Chronicle of the Horse!

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                            • What's a Stewart? Is it like a Steward?
                              "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
                              -George Morris

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                              • If you don't like that a groom can be the responsible person, you need to support changing the rule. Because like it or not, the way the rule reads it's not only permissible but sometimes completely appropriate for the groom to sign as "trainer." You may not like that rule (I think *I* don't like that rule) but that's how it's written.
                                ~Veronica
                                "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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                                • Originally posted by jonesy View Post
                                  I went and looked at that "other" site
                                  I am guessing the reference is to Horse Show Diva
                                  ~Veronica
                                  "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                  http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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                                  • Originally posted by Star's Ascent View Post
                                    That's fantastic for them. I said that the A barns that I have been at did not have turnout. Did I say that none of them did? No! I said the ones I have been at.
                                    .
                                    Wait! Isn't Placerville in California? There is no such thing as grass fields or paddocks at a commercial boarding barn in 95% of California. I lived and showed there for 17 years, with several different trainers. Land is so valuable that most people are not wealthy enough to own enough land to just support horses.

                                    And any paddock, if used a lot, will lose all its grass. The farms I boarded it had small square paddocks which allowed a horse to get out of its stall and walk around without being lead. Period. That is the reality of horse ownership in Ca. It has NOTHING to do with hunters v. TWH v. saddlebreds -- etc.

                                    If you are going to make statements based on your experience, and if you are so naive or uninformed not to realize that your experience is typical of ALL large barns in or near metropolitan areas, then you might qualify your opinion to reflect it.

                                    It would be interesting to see how many people posting have actually ridden with a BNT and/or shown at AA shows for any length of time. Why don't people post their credentials when giving their opinions? That way we will know whether or not to take you seriously?

                                    I'll start: I have ridden on the AA circuit for years -- From WEF to Lake Placid and from Arizona to Northern Calfornia. Yes, there is drugging, but it is not as prevalent as the haters with no experience are implying or outright stating (as if they have inside knowledge).

                                    SO easy to be an armchair quarterback. Doesn't give you any credibility.
                                    "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                                    Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
                                      If you are going to make statements based on your experience, and if you are so naive or uninformed not to realize that your experience is typical of ALL large barns in or near metropolitan areas, then you might qualify your opinion to reflect it.

                                      It would be interesting to see how many people posting have actually ridden with a BNT and/or shown at AA shows for any length of time. Why don't people post their credentials when giving their opinions? That way we will know whether or not to take you seriously?

                                      I'll start: I have ridden on the AA circuit for years -- From WEF to Lake Placid and from Arizona to Northern Calfornia. Yes, there is drugging, but it is not as prevalent as the haters with no experience are implying or outright stating (as if they have inside knowledge).

                                      SO easy to be an armchair quarterback. Doesn't give you any credibility.
                                      This.

                                      I second Lord Helpus, 100 percent.

                                      My credentials: rode on the A circuit in Texas as a junior, spent some time in a big A barn in California right after aging out (legging up big eq horses), and now ride with a BNT (yes, one of the ones that ACTUALLY qualifies as such) in NJ.

                                      California has no turn out (unless you're Karen Healey), but I don't know ANY other BNT outside of that state whose horses don't go out. I also don't know any who completely drug their horses to the gills like so many on this forum seem to believe. But, alas...

                                      I will 100 percent agree with the one poster earlier who touched on the idea that equitation horses actually have much harder lives than the hunters. Indeed. I've ridden a lot of good ones and well, they get ridden and drilled down a lot. A lot more than the hunters who you want to be a bit (albeit not that much) spectacular.

                                      Comment


                                      • I third Lord Helpus.

                                        I rode on the A circuit with an old-school BNT as a junior from the pony hunters through the junior hunters and junior jumpers (with an extremely brief stint in the equitation). I still ride with her and do the open jumpers and some of the smaller Grands Prix classes. I occasionally show a hunter here and there, but rarely. I'm a professional, although I don't have clients or anything like that - just starting to teach a little bit here and there.

                                        I also agree with LH and Tha Ridge that I don't know of anyone who drugs the everloving daylights out of their horses like a lot of people on here seem to think.
                                        Last edited by supershorty628; Feb. 24, 2013, 07:48 PM.
                                        http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
                                        Proudly blogging for The Chronicle of the Horse!

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post


                                          It would be interesting to see how many people posting have actually ridden with a BNT and/or shown at AA shows for any length of time. Why don't people post their credentials when giving their opinions? That way we will know whether or not to take you seriously?

                                          Yes, there is drugging, but it is not as prevalent as the haters with no experience are implying or outright stating (as if they have inside knowledge).

                                          SO easy to be an armchair quarterback. Doesn't give you any credibility.
                                          And, I love the title of this thread. Like BILL GATES is the bad guy (if there is one). Rumor, speculation and a BIG absence of facts.

                                          I heard a RUMOR that Parkland was sold. Even if the horse is leased, then Bill Gates has nothing to do with this thread. But that doesn't stop people from erroneously dragging both Mr. Gates and his daughter into this conversation and lending all sorts of gossip into why (or if) the horse went down. It's disgraceful.

                                          As Lord Helpus said, most of you have no credibility. Your speculation is damaging and none of you seem to care who you drag through the gutter with you. This isn't the first thread that takes potshots at innocent people in the industry and it's getting really old, really really fast.

                                          Quite frankly, I'm starting to think that there's a whole lot of people sitting behind a computer that have never, ever in their life owned a quality horse that can compete at this level. A little green monster is loose and is frequently making an appearance on the COTH boards.

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