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Horse Ridden by Keenan Dropping at WEF yesterday?

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  • #21
    Stupid question from a non-serious show person:

    If they see a horse doing that, why don't they drug test? Is it randomized? Or can you "flag" certain horses?

    Sorry for being clueless. Helpful and understanding responses appreciated
    "I'd rather have a horse. A horse is at least human, for god's sake." - J.D. Salinger

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    • #22
      Originally posted by starhorse View Post
      If they see a horse doing that, why don't they drug test? Is it randomized? Or can you "flag" certain horses?
      Trust me, we all wonder that! - I think they test a certain percentage of horses (cannot find that number anywhere) but it is usually pretty random. Additionally, there are a few commonly used drugs, mostly magnesium sulfate, which will not show up on a drug test.

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      • #23
        No horse wants to fall down. I picture that horse around all these people and never having a person of his own to stand up for him.

        So different from the way I own my horse and so sad for any animal.
        The armchair saddler
        Politically Pro-Cat

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        • #24
          Originally posted by mvp View Post
          No horse wants to fall down. I picture that horse around all these people and never having a person of his own to stand up for him.

          So different from the way I own my horse and so sad for any animal.
          Well said MVP.
          Unrepentant carb eater

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Limerick View Post
            There are enough details to this that I wouldn't be surprised at all that it happened. If it is true, I think it is so disturbing. [edit]

            Watching Bases Loaded stumble around last year was so awful. I really hope that child and her parents are being careful.
            This is all so confusing.... I am not privy to the big world of Hunters, however am beginning to get more involved in the upper level Hunters and from the barn I ride at would NEVER see anything like that! EVER!

            [edit]

            As far as the Bases Loaded video the first jump was pilot error and the trip on the last fence - I had a horse do something very similar (not drugged) he was showing signs of navicular and is now retired.

            I often wonder if some of that type of thing is pain related and they try to keep them going for too long?

            I know it's all speculation - I sure hope they figure it out one way or the other and of course the horse comes first!
            Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 27, 2013, 01:59 PM.
            Live in the sunshine.
            Swim in the sea.
            Drink the wild air.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by mvp View Post
              No horse wants to fall down. I picture that horse around all these people and never having a person of his own to stand up for him.

              So different from the way I own my horse and so sad for any animal.
              AMEN!!

              Just the thought of it brings me to tears. I just hurt for these horses.
              "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique

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              • #27
                "The horse has come to us by chance, not by choice. Of all the animals that have naturally come from the wild, there are very few that have shown any disposition to tolerate man and live with him on the terms we impose. In the mental make-up of the horse there is a quality of submission that has benefited man to no end. The horse will carry out duties without reward. He is a giving creature who asks for nothing.

                Horses have served as man's partner throughout the history of civilization, through the centuries without complaint they have served in war, commerce, agriculture and entertainment. They have born men and munitions into battle, pulled wagons and carriages, plowed fields, provided endless sport; polo, racing, dressage, fox hunting, three-day eventing, show jumping, reining... just to name but a few. Horses are embedded in our culture and our memories.

                The horse has an athleticism, grace and power. Beyond the horses physical attributes and his contributions to human well-being I am astounded, above all else, by his inner self, his spirit and his sweet and generous nature. The horse's adaptability and willingness to serve us has earned them a special place in our hearts. He is not a conquest of man. It is his nature to accept 'what is' with nobility.

                I think horses have helped give all of us in this room a wonderful life. Thanks to them I have received great personal satisfaction and felt closer to nature. Countless people experience the fulfillment of spending their days around horses. This is one of the best way to use one's time on earth. We are together tonight because of our bond with horses, let us protect and guard these wonderful creatures to the best of our ability."

                Joe Fargis, receiving the 2012 USEF Lifetime Achievement Award.

                (thanks to Fair Judy for transcription) (emphasis mine)

                Awaiting comment from all involved parties. Tick tock tick tock.
                http://www.facebook.com/pages/Easy-K...22998204542511
                http://www.easykeeperfarm.com

                I can ride my horses without a sharps container.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by doublesstable View Post

                  As far as the Bases Loaded video the first jump was pilot error and the trip on the last fence - I had a horse do something very similar (not drugged) he was showing signs of navicular and is now retired.

                  I often wonder if some of that type of thing is pain related and they try to keep them going for too long?
                  While the first fence was pilot error, he was desperately trying to tell her he just could not do it that day. He kicked out, he was sluggish, he was slow to pick his feet up, he was iffy off the ground...his legs just gave out on the landing because he didn't have the energy to pick them up and out of the way (the landing on the fence before the in-an-out was also iffy, followed by a crow-hop).

                  At this point, I'm not sure "careful" is winning out to "points, ribbons, win, win, win." I would HOPE so...but it appears to be the contrary...
                  "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Kenike View Post
                    I hate to say it wouldn't surprise me (in agreement with the sad life for big hunters), but it really wouldn't.
                    Sadly nothing suprises me anymore Between the drugs in hunters, the nasty stuff some jumpers do, and who knows what the western displines etc do nothing suprises me

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by SlamDunk View Post
                      Sadly nothing suprises me anymore Between the drugs in hunters, the nasty stuff some jumpers do, and who knows what the western displines etc do nothing suprises me
                      Lets not paint everyone with the same broad brush now!! And looking for what others MAY be doing isn't helping the sport.

                      Those that are the idiots should just pay the price and be an example to anyone else that even thinks about mistreating their mounts!!!!
                      If you really want to do something, you’ll find a way. If you don’t, you’ll find an excuse.

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                      • #31
                        Parkland is being shown in tonight's Hunter Spectacular, live coverage on USEF Network. http://www.usefnetwork.com/featured/FTIWEF2013/

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                        • #32
                          I guess one of the things that upsets me re this story is the vet. If a horse is stumbling/tripping/falling, whatever in the schooling ring, why does the vet LET the horse show just a little while later? Maybe it was drugs that do or don't test, but it also could have been something truly wrong w/ the horse that maybe cant be diagnosed on the spot. Where is his/her/their sense of conscience??? That horse should have been scratched from those classes...
                          We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by 2tempe View Post
                            I guess one of the things that upsets me re this story is the vet. If a horse is stumbling/tripping/falling, whatever in the schooling ring, why does the vet LET the horse show just a little while later? Maybe it was drugs that do or don't test, but it also could have been something truly wrong w/ the horse that maybe cant be diagnosed on the spot. Where is his/her/their sense of conscience??? That horse should have been scratched from those classes...
                            So is this horse owned by Bill Gates for his daughter, Jennifer? Thought Jennifer rides with Thumbs Up in WA?

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                            • #34
                              Wow. What amazes me me if the amount of speculation and jumping to conclusions going on....

                              1-Bases Loaded was a catch ride. Lillie meet the horse at the ring and got on. Any prep he received had nothing to do with Lillie. And I cannot say I agree that is why he tripped. I think he was tired after showing in 3 or 4 divisions that week and just stumbled in that footing, which has absolutely no give when they do stumble.

                              2- Parkland was standing at the ring being held by a groom waiting to show when he collapsed. No one was riding him. Lillie was waiting nearby and saw the event, and horse was sent back to barn to be checked by vet. Nothing seemed wrong with him, vet cleared him to show, he returned to ring and won classes.

                              He is not a catch ride but a lease, and is under the care of Lillie's trainers, who have not had ANY USEF drug related infractions, despite consistently having more horses at the shows than any other barn.

                              Those are the facts. Please do not be quick to incriminate a young girl because she has been involved with two freak incidences.

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by FAW View Post
                                So is this horse owned by Bill Gates for his daughter, Jennifer? Thought Jennifer rides with Thumbs Up in WA?
                                She rides with the Towells. Lillie is leasing the horse, I assume, so I don't think it's really fair to bring the Gates or Towells into this.

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                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Piggiejump View Post
                                  Wow. What amazes me me if the amount of speculation and jumping to conclusions going on....

                                  1-Bases Loaded was a catch ride. Lillie meet the horse at the ring and got on. Any prep he received had nothing to do with Lillie. And I cannot say I agree that is why he tripped. I think he was tired after showing in 3 or 4 divisions that week and just stumbled in that footing, which has absolutely no give when they do stumble.

                                  2- Parkland was standing at the ring being held by a groom waiting to show when he collapsed. No one was riding him. Lillie was waiting nearby and saw the event, and horse was sent back to barn to be checked by vet. Nothing seemed wrong with him, vet cleared him to show, he returned to ring and won classes.

                                  He is not a catch ride but a lease, and is under the care of Lillie's trainers, who have not had ANY USEF drug related infractions, despite consistently having more horses at the shows than any other barn.

                                  Those are the facts. Please do not be quick to incriminate a young girl because she has been involved with two freak incidences.

                                  Don't you work at Heritage?

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by lrp1106 View Post
                                    Don't you work at Heritage?
                                    So what if they do? I'd rather hear from someone who was there than all of the armchair quarterbacks here.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Piggiejump View Post
                                      Parkland was standing at the ring being held by a groom waiting to show when he collapsed. No one was riding him. Lillie was waiting nearby and saw the event, and horse was sent back to barn to be checked by vet. Nothing seemed wrong with him, vet cleared him to show, he returned to ring and won classes.
                                      With all due respect, does it really seem normal for a fit, healthy horse to collapse at the ring, regardless of whether or not it was being ridden? That is where I think the accusations of drugs are coming from. While I understand the importance of "hunter week", why was the horse showing if there was enough wrong with it that it collapsed just prior to that?

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by Tha Ridge View Post
                                        So what if they do? I'd rather hear from someone who was there than all of the armchair quarterbacks here.
                                        I was straight out asking, no attitude or questioning intended. I remember Piggiejump working at Heritage, but I was not sure, so I asked. But thanks for jumping down my throat!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by 2tempe View Post
                                          I guess one of the things that upsets me re this story is the vet. If a horse is stumbling/tripping/falling, whatever in the schooling ring, why does the vet LET the horse show just a little while later? Maybe it was drugs that do or don't test, but it also could have been something truly wrong w/ the horse that maybe cant be diagnosed on the spot. Where is his/her/their sense of conscience??? That horse should have been scratched from those classes...
                                          I'm not understanding how someone can blame the veterinarian in this situation. How can a vet stop a horse from entering a competition?

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