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leasing opinions (update from other threads)

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  • leasing opinions (update from other threads)

    Hey everybody,
    This is an update but different thread from "to lease or not to lease" and "need advice". I just recently moved my horse. FINALLY. I became so fed up with his situation, I elected to buy out part of my 30 days to take my horse to a great facility. He is now in a beautiful new training facility.

    My boy is a 10 yr old OTTB gelding. He came off the track 3 years ago. He is very quiet and well behaved but still technically green. This new trainer has evaluated him and really likes him. She feels she may eventually have a potential leasee if I am willing to consider (in a few months). The student did very well and liked him. This trainer is very knowledgeable and experienced. For that reason, I would be willing to lease him to one of her students.

    Since he is a boarder owned horse, she feels it is my decision to come up with the terms and cost of lease. Seeing as he is green-ish, I don't believe it is appropriate to ask a lease fee, other than monthly costs. This student would be interested in a partial lease.

    At this facility, training board (the only option) is $750 and includes 2 lessons plus 1 training ride per week. The student would want 3 days per week, (2 lessons and 1 practice ride or show day). That being said all rides would obviously be supervised. The student would want to show walk/trot.

    What would be a fair amount to ask if you all think it would be reasonable to consider? The fact that this facility only offers training board is what makes the cost more difficult to figure out. Please opine!
    Last edited by anmoro; Feb. 7, 2013, 05:16 PM. Reason: grammar nazi got a hold of me!

  • #2
    Are you planning taking 2 lessons/week in addition to the shareboarder's 2 lessons? If so, I'd ask about a full training option and just split that cost 50/50 with him/her, along with the lessons.

    If there isn't a full training option, how much are lessons and training rides at this facility? You can then do the math and back into the actual board rate and just charge her 1/2 board + $100 to cover routine vet/farrier bills.

    Either way, I would write up a lease agreement (google for free samples) that included her being required to take a minimum of 8 lessons/month or 2/3 of rides must be in lessons. As she advances, she may be able to ride more on her own, outside of lessons, but if she's a walk-trot rider right now, she should definitely spend more time in lessons than on her own. I'd let her know that you're open to renegotiating that ratio in the future, but will always require at least one of her rides each week to be in a lesson.

    I would also make it a month to month half-lease with either party able to terminate the agreement with 30 days notice.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm a little confused on the useage part. Does the student want 3 days for riding plus 2 days for lessons so 5 days for the leasee? Plus the training ride & a day off? I would consider that a full lease so they would pay the horse's full costs.

      If you mean the rider wants 3 days per week then I would call that a half lease/shareboard & charge them 1/2 the horse's costs (board, shoes, vet, insurance if you have it).

      Is the leasee going to get the 2 weekly lessons included in the board & you will pay out of pocket for any lessons you want? Or will you each get 1 lesson a week & pay out of pocket for any additional?
      "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

      Comment


      • #4
        I know some people go by percentages of monthly expenses (ie: board, shoes, vet, alternative medical practices like massage therapy), but I prefer to do a flat monthly rate. I find that is easier for both parties, the lessee knows how much they're paying each month, and the lessor can put that amount towards what part of their horses expenses they so choose. I typically go by $25/ride, so 3x/week would work out to $300/month. However, if your horse has some limitations that a lessee could view as a drawback, perhaps consider charging less. It's been so long since I've leased a out a horse or leased a horse for myself, that I've forgotten some things. However, I believe a lot of people give "deals" on leases if the lessee is in training with their coach at their barn. If the potential lessee is riding with your trainer 1-2 times a week, that's an added expense, and having a slightly discounted lease fee may be a good incentive to stay on with your horse long term.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          My apologies for the confusion. This facility ONLY offers full training board at $750 per month. With that price, board receives 2 lessons per week along with trainer doing 1 training ride per week. There are no other board options here.

          The student is currently taking 2 lessons per week with the trainer and the trainer said that must continue. She (trainer) suggested the third day being used for "show day" when the student wants to show, or a practice ride if they don't show that week.

          Would you all suggest I allow the 2 lessons included with training board go to the student to ease that expense and encourage long term? I could probably ask the trainer if she would allow that training ride to be used as a lesson for me?

          I really appreciate all of your suggestions. I have never leased or leased out a horse at a facility with training board. Otherwise I would say 50/50 split on board and half farrier. The training part is what makes it confusing for me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Full training means 2 lessons per week and one ride from the trainer?

            Don't you want to take lessons too?

            I don't understand how is that an advantage for you.

            I mean, the trainer will get her 750$/month and give her two lessons and won't have to ride the horse.
            The lessor will pay for his two lessons and 1 extra ride per week (free show days and trainer get obviously paid for that day)
            You'll end up paying less board, but you will have to pay the trainer more money to take lessons (more money to trainer) How much are the lessons?

            I just don't see how it will help you, unless you don't want to take lessons, and don't want to show yourself.

            If it was me, I would ask for a little less than half board and would at least keep 1 (if not 2 lessons) and ask the trainer to get on the horse once a week like s/he is supposed to.
            ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

            Originally posted by LauraKY
            I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
            HORSING mobile training app

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by anmoro View Post
              My apologies for the confusion. This facility ONLY offers full training board at $750 per month. With that price, board receives 2 lessons per week along with trainer doing 1 training ride per week. There are no other board options here.

              The student is currently taking 2 lessons per week with the trainer and the trainer said that must continue. She (trainer) suggested the third day being used for "show day" when the student wants to show, or a practice ride if they don't show that week.

              Would you all suggest I allow the 2 lessons included with training board go to the student to ease that expense and encourage long term? I could probably ask the trainer if she would allow that training ride to be used as a lesson for me?

              I really appreciate all of your suggestions. I have never leased or leased out a horse at a facility with training board. Otherwise I would say 50/50 split on board and half farrier. The training part is what makes it confusing for me.
              Wow - that is CHEAP for training board. At least in my area!

              I've half leased out each of my horses at one point or the other over the years. Trying to figure out the split board/farrier/vet is a total pain in the ass.

              Just come up with an amount that makes sense to you/helps you out financially and set that as the fee. You don't have to justify why you are charging what you are. Give her one of the lessons if you want, but don't include it as part of the agreement. JMHO.

              Comment


              • #8
                I am not understanding why training board makes it more difficult to figure out what to charge? Assuming you also want to use the horse half the time?

                Average your monthly costs including vet and farrier then split it in half. I suggest you think about what to do should the horse suffer a major medical expense-in this type deal, usually the owner is going to take over, not a month to month half leasor getting stuck with half a colic surgery bill or something.

                IMO the lessons should be split too, each gets one. Any additional are each parties responsibilty to arrange and pay for. Part leases are always give and take, each party is going to get and give a little. Do it month to month automatic renewal with 30 day notice by either side to terminate.

                When I half leased, I always thought 4 lessons a week was way too much drill so limited it to 3 on an alternating week basis, I got 2 she got 1 one week then she got 2 and I got 1. Horse got 2 days off a week (not together) and we arranged our scehduals to allow that.

                When the horse is in the same barn these are pretty simple most of the time. But GET IT IN WRITING.

                Used to always advise insuring the horse and getting major medical for them but things are changing in the insurance industry with horses under 5 figures in valuation and limits on the MM that make it not so cost effective. Something that is up to you.
                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'll echo everyone else with, are you planning on taking lessons too?

                  If you are, you could split 50-50 board/training, each get one "included" lesson per week. Lessee pays for her additional lesson out of pocket, and you pay for any additional lessons you want. She pays $375 lease fee + cost of additional weekly lesson.

                  If you want 2 lessons as well, you could ask her to pay 1/2 what board would "cost" sans lessons (I'm guessing you're roughly paying $350 board +$400 training?). Which would be $175/mo and she pays for her own lessons.

                  If you don't want any of the lessons, I'd think she should pay the $400 (roughly) training portion, plus 1/2 board for a total of $575/mo.

                  If you want help with cost of shoes/routine vet and supplies as well, I would calculate this into monthly $$, and add on this fee to the monthly lease and tell her that you are doing so. In my experience, this is infinitely easier than trying to get another check for 1/2 shoes and vet each time it happens.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thank you for your insight! Yes Paint Pony it is cheap for training board! Most decent facilities in this area are $600+ for regular board, then add on another $400 or so for training. The best part, this facility is amazing! I can't gush enough about how wonderful the barn is, the owner/manager is a Godsend and incredibly compassionate about the horses and loves what she does, and the positive attitude and love for horses shines through with the stablehands. It is a small facility with only 12 horses currently with a max capacity of 14 (2 horses are arriving soon).

                    I love the idea of splitting lessons 1:1 and then we each pay for an additional lesson. I never thought of that. I have never had a horse on training board that I leased out. I think keeping the training rides weekly is a great idea, that is one of the main reasons you board at this facility versus others. If I recall correctly, lesson packages for 2 lessons per week are approximately $320/month. I think splitting the included lessons is a great idea and then each purchasing an additional lesson is great.

                    Thank you all for your help!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just make sure that you put EVERYTHING in writing -- it is always better to get very specific in advance rather than try to sort stuff out later if something goes wrong.

                      What tack can/must be used?
                      Who can ride the horse other than the person leasing (do you want her friends riding?)
                      How often/how high can she jump?
                      What happens if the horse is injured? Do you want to be notified before any vet treatment? Who pays for what?
                      Can she take your horse off property? If so, do you care who trailers? Where they ride?
                      If the girl wants to show, how does that affect your riding schedule?
                      What happens if she misses one of "her" days?

                      I've share leased a few of my horses over the years and while it can be great, there are times when I've just had to shake my head and wonder why someone thought they could, for example, ride my horse at a different day/time than their lease specified, jump my horse unsupervised and then put her away with an injury, put a huge scratch on my saddle and think I wouldn't notice . . .

                      In generally, I find that it works better to charge slightly more than you think is reasonable because other costs do come up and it's harder to raise the agreed upon price and you can end up resenting the person leasing for getting "too good" a deal.

                      Consider if you really want your horse tied up three days/week. Does that leave you enough time to ride? Does it give the horse any days off? Or do you want it to be two days a week plus two floating days so that she could show, etc.
                      Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                      EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        I am currently working on my thesis so my riding time is restricted. I was going to set exact days for riding and lessons and then a floating day for shows. I'll probably be showing in a different association than the leasee. The trainer does not allow students to jump outside of lessons so that takes care of that concern (which is very valid). Is it too off the wall to say that I want 2 weeks notice for shows so as to not interfere with my show schedule and that only the trainer can trailer him?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by anmoro View Post
                          I am currently working on my thesis so my riding time is restricted. I was going to set exact days for riding and lessons and then a floating day for shows. I'll probably be showing in a different association than the leasee. The trainer does not allow students to jump outside of lessons so that takes care of that concern (which is very valid). Is it too off the wall to say that I want 2 weeks notice for shows so as to not interfere with my show schedule and that only the trainer can trailer him?
                          Not off the wall at all. I think 2 weeks notice is good manners and that having only your trainer trailer him is a good idea. I'm very, very careful about who trailers my horse.
                          Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                          EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So, I think the student's share should be $375 + their additional lesson a la carte, if that's an option. As for shoeing, you could split it, but I think it's easier to just rotate showings—Jane pays one month, John pays the next. Based on the description of the horse, I don't think an additional lease fee is justified.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would consider shoes, supplements, regular vet bills (maintenance and vaccinations) as well. Calculate the average monthly total and split 50/50. That's the fair price. If you just charge 50% of the training board rate, I think you're under-charging.
                              Born under a rock and owned by beasts!

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