• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Changing times in Hunter World: Anyone oldies buy investment horses for young pros?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Changing times in Hunter World: Anyone oldies buy investment horses for young pros?

    I am approaching that "certain age" where, in times of yore, an ammy like me would have started buying nice horses for a pro to sit on for a couple of years before I rode it.

    But! Hunters have changes so much within my lifetime, that I'm not sure I want to stay and pour in that amount of money.

    Then it occurred to me that the Admirable Old Ladies I saw doing this when I was a kid might have felt the same thing. E. g. the hunters of the 1990s weren't what they had come to love in the 1970s or so. Yet they stayed.

    And I thought, too, of the young pros I really like/trust and would dearly like to provide a nice horse for. I can see that they need that to get where they are going.

    So I'm torn. Can you patrons of the sport tell me how you do it?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

  • #2
    I tried it - twice. A very good trainer/coach was "in charge" and the young pro rode the horses. One horse finished, as in lame, one year later and the other 2 years later. All the money gone bye bye and two horses toast. . Lack
    of horsemanship and care of animals. What a waste. NEVER again.

    Not sure if this is what used to happen. However most people say that the young investment horse is an urban myth.

    I would check out your young pro very carefully. Be very involved. Trust no one!!
    I would like to add that losing the money was pretty much accepted- the carnage came as quite a shock.
    Last edited by Dinah-do; Jan. 22, 2013, 09:58 AM. Reason: spelling and last line

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      D'oh, Dinah-do.

      That's a bad story. I know I didn't see/groom for the crippled horses belonging to the Good Clients, but I saw some happy ones. Was that "client is having one good day at one good show?" or were they happy with their pros in the long term. I didn't think to ask at the time.
      The armchair saddler
      Politically Pro-Cat

      Comment


      • #4
        My trainer always says there's no such thing as an investment horse. Always buy a horse assuming that you're going to lose money.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by MySuperExAlter View Post
          My trainer always says there's no such thing as an investment horse. Always buy a horse assuming that you're going to lose money.
          Yup.

          I should redefine what I meant: I mean a HO who buys a horse she knows she won't ride for a bit and pays a pro to train/show it. She writes checks and points to the one that's hers from the rail.

          That's enough money losing for me.... and that doesn't assume it goes belly up or doesn't get sold at the right time for the right price.
          The armchair saddler
          Politically Pro-Cat

          Comment


          • #6
            The scenario you are describing happens all the time, frankly. I've done it...sure, I lightly hacked my young horses, but the trainer did all the 'heavy lifting' to get horse in the ring, experienced and ready for me to show--so I'm not sure what you are asking..are you saying you want a "made" horse to hop on, instead of "making it up" yourself? I don't think there's any shame to admitting I don't have the time, expertise or ability to bring along a talented young horse.
            Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

            Comment


            • #7
              It happens to my trainer all the time (although she's not a young pro) She has now enlisted me to be her rider for these horses when she can't ride/ wants to be on the ground/ needs someone else to show the older ammy's horse. Right now she has (I think) six clients making horses like this and its working out awesome for all of them
              My Horse Show Photography/ Blog

              Comment


              • #8
                When I reached "that age" where I would rather watch my good horses perform than ride them, we switched to racehorses. Now I get the fun of breeding and having the foals and I don't kid myself that I could perform anywhere near the level that my current horses are capable of.
                www.laurienberenson.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm not old, but I bought a baby horse 2 and a half years ago that my trainer has been bringing along for me. She has done a great job and my girl has gone from a wild baby mare to getting ready to start the second year pre-greens in a month or so. She also carted me around the 2'6" ring three months post-baby last year and I am looking forward to finally getting to show her a little more this year.

                  I didn't buy young with the specific intent of handing her over to a young pro to bring along, but I knew I wanted a nice horse and couldn't afford the already made up version. The 10 month hiatus from riding due to pregnancy ended up being a really great time of development and training for my horse.

                  For reference, her very first horse show:

                  http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Or...4&po=33&pc=141

                  At Upperville this year (Pre-Greens):
                  http://www.teresaramsay.com/details....679&pid=303022
                  "A canter is the cure for every evil."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mvp View Post
                    I am approaching that "certain age" where, in times of yore, an ammy like me would have started buying nice horses for a pro to sit on for a couple of years before I rode it.

                    But! Hunters have changes so much within my lifetime, that I'm not sure I want to stay and pour in that amount of money.

                    Then it occurred to me that the Admirable Old Ladies I saw doing this when I was a kid might have felt the same thing. E. g. the hunters of the 1990s weren't what they had come to love in the 1970s or so. Yet they stayed.

                    And I thought, too, of the young pros I really like/trust and would dearly like to provide a nice horse for. I can see that they need that to get where they are going.

                    So I'm torn. Can you patrons of the sport tell me how you do it?

                    I know a young pro I'd dearly love to provide a horse. But I just plain can't afford it - not with the costs and the mega-shows these days. I'm truly priced out. I've changed disciplines to something more affordable.
                    The truth is always in the middle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mvp View Post
                      I am approaching that "certain age" where, in times of yore, an ammy like me would have started buying nice horses for a pro to sit on for a couple of years before I rode it.

                      But! Hunters have changes so much within my lifetime, that I'm not sure I want to stay and pour in that amount of money.

                      Then it occurred to me that the Admirable Old Ladies I saw doing this when I was a kid might have felt the same thing. E. g. the hunters of the 1990s weren't what they had come to love in the 1970s or so. Yet they stayed.

                      And I thought, too, of the young pros I really like/trust and would dearly like to provide a nice horse for. I can see that they need that to get where they are going.

                      So I'm torn. Can you patrons of the sport tell me how you do it?
                      I don't think what you describe is going anywhere. Most of us busy ammies who buy something young will let our trainers steer the ship for a few years.

                      What I wonder if you're asking (and what I DO think is decreasing) is the horse bought for the pro with no intention of being ridden by the owner. Not the young horse, but rather the more experienced fancy high level horse. The working hunter that would jump me out of the tack, for instance.

                      If I had all the money in the world I'd buy my trainer the nicest Derby horse that money could by. But that doesn't happen too much any more. It's just too expensive!

                      But as far as what you are specifically asking, about a young horse for a few years before mommy gets in the irons -- that's not going anywhere. in fact, it might be getting more common as a really great made horse is so expensive that most people now try to buy younger and spread that cost out over a few years of training rather than dumping it on the horse in the very beginning.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I hope those people don't disappear - my talented rider will not get in the show ring much more without finding an owner who doesn't ride but wants to see her lovely animal go around. She's still a junior so she has a lot more classes open to her but the theme is the same. It is very difficult, and she is starting at the bottom willing to do the barn work and chores and hack things at home and put saddle hours on babies and greenies and anything that needs a tune up for someone else until she gets offered a ride in the show ring.
                        If you love me let me go....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          IMO - the problem with buying a talented young rider a lovely young horse is that the young rider will still have to ride under a more experienced pro to get the very best education , program and support team that the wonderful horse needs to succeed. Your lovely investment horse ( or not investment horse) is going to be a schoolie for the young pro to climb the industry ladder with. Unless the young rider is close to being a finished rider you are better to get the best horse possible and give to the best rider possible. The risks are too high to take a hope for the best approach.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I buy young horses and train them myself. I take lessons and ride at a show barn, and pay for a trainer at the shows. The only problem I have had is that the young horses go through lots of "growing pains" and that can be expensive. So soundness is my biggest concern. That will lead to willingness. It is a gamble and they don't all turn out the way we'd like, but I enjoy the process (most of the time)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I know a couple of people who bought their "next" horses and turned them over to a pro to make up for them. In one case, the horse turned out beautifully and got sold before the owner ever got to really do much with it (but they were happy to get the $$,) and in the other case, the owner wound up with a very fancy horse she ultimately couldn't ride - it remained a "pro's horse." She's still paying the bills on that one and would like to sell it, but the pro has her boxed into a place where she'd basically have to leave the barn if she did so; there is a lot of pressure to continue to underwrite the pro's career on that horse, which has won quite a bit.

                              In all my decades of riding and showing, there are a total of 2 H/J pros that I would hand over a young horse to with the intent of having it made up for me. One is a young jumper rider (who now only does sales horses,) and the other is now priced way beyond what I would be willing to spend on the adventure. But then, I am not (yet) at a point where I mind making up my own; I still really enjoy the process.
                              Last edited by Lucassb; Jan. 23, 2013, 10:11 AM. Reason: fix typo
                              **********
                              We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                              -PaulaEdwina

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Here's what I meant about "willingness"
                                http://www.thehorse.com/articles/312...ngness-to-work

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X