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Judge with chip on shoulder?

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  • OP, it sounds like your daughter, at 4, is riding because she has fun and loves he ponies. If you don't like the highly competitive nature of the top circuits (remember, for you it's a hobby, but for many at that level, it's their business and source of income), why not find some fun, laid-back local shows for your daughter instead? At four, your daughter isn't going to care if the ribbon came from an A show or the local 4-H fair. Why not start with fun, well-run shows and let her decide when she's more capable of making an informed decision whether she wants to show at the bigger shows or have fun in the locals? At that age, it sounds like doing the A's and AA's is more of an ego trip for the parents than the kid, especially if you're doing it on your own and not as part of a trainer's program. Heck, I show locally because it fits my budget and is a heck of a lot more fun for me than stressing over the rated shows. At 4, it's possible that you're picking the level/prestige of the show for you or for your trainer's pocketbook, not necessarily for your daughter's fun in the sport.

    As for the cross-entering...you should stop that. Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally right. The lesson daughter could learn from having to ride at her correct level and not showing just for the ribbons is far, far more valuable and will serve her far better in life than any ribbon she earns in the leadline class. It sounds like you're more enamored with her showing on the Grand Prix field than with doing he honorable thing. You may not have meant to come across that way, but you did. Cross entering into a lower class than you are capable of just to get more or better ribbons or to be seen in the "right" ring is poor sportsmanship whether you're 4 or 54. How would you, as her parent feel if a kid who was showing in walk-trot-canter or jumping classes also entered the walk-trot against your daughter? My guess is that you'd think it was unfair and unsportsmanlike, and you would be right.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mayaty02 View Post
      Unfortunately OP, the pony business is SERIOUS business and if you have lots of money and very little knowledge, you are a target for the unscupulous trainers in the business. It's a sad fact but a fact nonetheless.
      Yes, I second this as well. See the Humble thread, the pony dyed a different color to re-market it thread, the Pony Finals/Mindy Darst thread, just to name a few.

      The pony ring is some serious business these days...gotta keep your head up and watch for flying bows and garters.

      Comment


      • OP, I don't know you, or your situation but I am going to write this anyway. I started riding when I was six years old. My father was very involved with my riding, taking me to lessons and horse shows etc. It was our bonding time. Just before my 12th birthday (about a month before) out the blue he decided to buy me a horse. Less than a month later he had passed away. (we found out the doctors told him he had about 6 weeks to live. He was on congestive heart failure) The last thing he did before he died was go to the barn and groom my horse. The barn owner and my trainer at the time told me that, while he was grooming the horse, he was telling it to keep an eye on me, that he wasn't going to be around much longer. Long story short, the horses became my special bond with him. To this day, I can feel him watching over me, especially on those first warm days of spring (like the day he died) It is something I cherish and will never forget. I also think the horses listened to him in constantly watching over me. So the point of this post:
        Don't let the little things (like a cranky judge or steward or other trainer etc) get in the way of what matters most: you spending time with your daughter. In the end, the idiot making a scene will fade from memory, but you being there will be forever etched. Keep enjoying the horse shows with your daughter!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by MoonLadyIsis View Post
          OP, I don't know you, or your situation but I am going to write this anyway. I started riding when I was six years old. My father was very involved with my riding, taking me to lessons and horse shows etc. It was our bonding time. Just before my 12th birthday (about a month before) out the blue he decided to buy me a horse. Less than a month later he had passed away. (we found out the doctors told him he had about 6 weeks to live. He was on congestive heart failure) The last thing he did before he died was go to the barn and groom my horse. The barn owner and my trainer at the time told me that, while he was grooming the horse, he was telling it to keep an eye on me, that he wasn't going to be around much longer. Long story short, the horses became my special bond with him. To this day, I can feel him watching over me, especially on those first warm days of spring (like the day he died) It is something I cherish and will never forget. I also think the horses listened to him in constantly watching over me. So the point of this post:
          Don't let the little things (like a cranky judge or steward or other trainer etc) get in the way of what matters most: you spending time with your daughter. In the end, the idiot making a scene will fade from memory, but you being there will be forever etched. Keep enjoying the horse shows with your daughter!
          Very beautiful post.

          I would have given anything to have had my father, just once, take an interest in my love of riding. He was so obsessed with competition that he soured me on all sports, for years. He never once saw me ride, and I started at age 4.
          Don't take to joy out of her delight with riding, by letting the show bug creep in, she's only four!

          Let her learn to ride and care for horses the right way, thoroughly, from the ground up, and let her tell you when and if she wants to show.

          Schooling shows are a great idea. Watch out for trainers that only want to show and win ribbons to improve THEIR credentials. They will jump important steps in the process, to the detriment of the children and the ponies/horses.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MoonLadyIsis View Post
            OP,
            Don't let the little things (like a cranky judge or steward or other trainer etc) get in the way of what matters most: you spending time with your daughter. In the end, the idiot making a scene will fade from memory, but you being there will be forever etched. Keep enjoying the horse shows with your daughter!
            BWW, this is good advice.

            I remember our riding club shows when I was a child and how my non- horsey father was always there, often filming with the 8? or 16? mm camera. Not doing anything horsey, but, being an engineer, he stepped in when the electronic timer malfunctioned,when the speaker system went down, provided walkie talkies when he noticed that the communication between the judges box and the gate could be improved.

            I was blissfully unaware of the politics involved in the rated classes. I had fun! When I won a trophy or ribbon I was thrilled. When I won nothing I was happy to have participated and tried my best. It was all about riding.

            At the end of the year the club gave my father a very nice engraved plack, thanking him for his help. He was so surprised! I was so proud of him.

            I'll never forget those times. Be the good guy for your daughter by keeping it fun. She'll never forget.

            Comment


            • My advice to the OP: Stay away from the horseshow world. You will lose your money, and your daughter will not be happy unless you spend tons of it. The judges favor their friends' kids(other trainers kids over any other good riding kid at the same level) unless you are willing to pour money down their throats(i.e. buy their sale horses) Tennis sounds much better!!!! And if you think that judge or steward was unfair you ain't seen anything yet. And this board is nice compared to what goes on in the famous AAA circuit.

              Comment


              • Sorry, It is not your place to speak with the judge without permission from the steward. Unfortunately madam,YOU were out of line. If you have issues with a licensed official speak to the steward.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jumperprincess View Post
                  Sorry, It is not your place to speak with the judge without permission from the steward. Unfortunately madam,YOU were out of line. If you have issues with a licensed official speak to the steward.
                  Seven pages later, I think the OP has got the message!
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                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    Originally posted by SMF11 View Post
                    Seven pages later, I think the OP has got the message!
                    True true, and I appreciate very much the open and honest feedback from some of the posters. We are learning the ropes like you once did.

                    But for some of the other posters, it appears this thread did nothing more than provide a great deal of amusement and provide a platform for attacking someone anonymously (the comments about Meds, and breaking out the popcorn and piling on, and so forth).

                    I looked back at the history of several of these posters to see what they had posted in other prior threads, and words and labels like "loser" and "idiot" are thrown around quite liberally by them.

                    Well, you add no value to the discussion with feedback like that, and you should ask yourselves why you are inclined to react that way. If life is less than you would like it to be be, or you are unhappy with things, then by all means go out and make a change.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                      Judge with a chip on his shoulder or OP with entire mountain range sitting on his nads?


                      Laurierace, I laughed so hard I started choking... can I use this in my sig line?


                      And OP, please, please read what these posts over and over and over again...

                      Originally posted by SMF11 View Post
                      OP, I've gone back and read your old posts. If you can take a deep breath and step back from this thread, I'd urge you to stay on COTH. You are brand new to the sport, with only your four year old riding. You know almost nothing. You (presumably) have deep pockets. You are exactly who the unscrupulous trainers are looking for.

                      This is the best resource out there for information about horses and riding. Olympic riders post here. Veterinarians post here. You can learn *so much* just by reading this forum.

                      Whatever you do, educate yourself. You can do that by reading COTH, or by having your daughter join Pony Club (highly recommended, though 4 is a little young). The horse business is one of the sleaziest out there, and there are many people keen to take your money and who do not care at all what's best for your daughter, you, or any pony you might buy.

                      What do I have to gain by offering this advice? Not a thing. I am trying to help you; it sounds to me like you are possibly heading for a bad experience and I hope that you'll educate yourself so that you can avoid it (and the many pitfalls with horses and certain horse professionals).

                      Good luck.
                      Originally posted by skydy View Post
                      Showing horses is "fraught with peril" unfortunately. However your daughter can have a great time and learn some good life lessons. Many of those lessons will be "How Not To Behave like an Idiot", because you will be exposed to people acting like idiots.

                      Choose the horse people you associate with carefully and try very hard not to be "that guy".

                      There are some wise people here who can help you. It is supposed to be a fun time for your daughter. Kids, enjoying their ponies, remember?
                      Many kids are soured by the horse show experience, because the fun is lost when the ADULTS lose perspective.

                      Try not to be too competitive, she is still so young. Rise above whatever nastiness you encounter and your daughter will follow your lead. Good Luck and have fun!
                      You've gotten some FANTASTIC advice and insight here... and yes, COTH is absolutely one of (if not *the* best) ways to educate yourself... There are so many helpful, knowledgable, and honest people on this board; COTH really is a hugely beneficial resource to not only rank beginners, but even to those of us who have been riding for 20+ years (such as myself )... bottom line- in the horse world, we never, ever stop learning. EVER! So keep that in mind as you and your family proceed forward in the world of horses... it will give you great perspective.


                      And OP, this is the right attitude to have :

                      Originally posted by BWW View Post
                      That is awesome feedback, no doubt about it. Sorry to all if I offended, it was not my intention. I have no idea how or why this thing escalated like it did. I know I got a little hot under the collar to some of you when I felt like it was getting too personal. Yes, we are new to the sport, and have a lot to learn, at the same time and I am a passionate father and advocate for my daughter. That's just me...
                      Best of luck to you and yours as you navigate the horse world... and remember- this is supposed to be FUN!!!!

                      Originally posted by Martha Drum
                      ...But I don't want to sit helmetless on my horse while he lies on the ground kicking a ball around without a bridle while Leatherface does an interpretive dance with his chainsaw around us.

                      Comment



                      • OP, it is clear from your reactions to the posts here that it might not have been the judge or the steward who had the biggest melt down at the show.


                        Please do listen to the great advice given to you by some of the above posters. Lots of good knowledge here. You simply have to read it with out the chip on your shoulder.....

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MoonLadyIsis View Post
                          OP, I don't know you, or your situation but I am going to write this anyway. I started riding when I was six years old. My father was very involved with my riding, taking me to lessons and horse shows etc. It was our bonding time. Just before my 12th birthday (about a month before) out the blue he decided to buy me a horse. Less than a month later he had passed away. (we found out the doctors told him he had about 6 weeks to live. He was on congestive heart failure) The last thing he did before he died was go to the barn and groom my horse. The barn owner and my trainer at the time told me that, while he was grooming the horse, he was telling it to keep an eye on me, that he wasn't going to be around much longer. Long story short, the horses became my special bond with him. To this day, I can feel him watching over me, especially on those first warm days of spring (like the day he died) It is something I cherish and will never forget. I also think the horses listened to him in constantly watching over me. So the point of this post:
                          Don't let the little things (like a cranky judge or steward or other trainer etc) get in the way of what matters most: you spending time with your daughter. In the end, the idiot making a scene will fade from memory, but you being there will be forever etched. Keep enjoying the horse shows with your daughter!
                          Wow! What a lovely story. Like callmeacab, I would have given anything to have my dad be involved with my love of riding. Sadly, he didn't have any interest.

                          Comment


                          • Are you serious? since when did a judge becomean "eltitist".Part of the issue at hand here is it's apparent that said judge seems think he/she is an eltitist above the rest and no one is going to say anything to him/her for doing what they did. Why would you want a judge's charit and why would you ever want somethingfrom them?

                            Whatever the judge was ranting about; whether it was warranted or not; it was not done in a professional manner especially in front of children. what kind of example is the judge trying to set here?

                            Comment


                            • OK, I skipped from pg. 4 to here, so if my question was asked/answered, please point me to it.

                              If the show/management allows cross entering between W/T and leadline, what the hell was the steward (or judge, if we are still with that story) doing accosting ANYONE about it? No rules broken, no reason to speak to trainer, in any tone of voice. Am I missing somthing?

                              And OP, this BB, any BB for that matter, is not a hospitable environment to start with, but when you start speculating about why someone is home posting during the day, and the telling them to go MAKE MONEY SO THEY CAN SHOW?? Not a good idea...
                              Laurie

                              Comment


                              • OP has calmed down a bit and still with us, which is good for noobs loking for information.

                                But we really don't know what exactly happened here or who was or was not involved-judge or steward and OP is not clear on the officials or the cause of the whole thing -which he may not even know. We have no info from the trainer even thru the OP so we will never know.

                                Always 3 sides to any tale and the truth somewhere in the middle.

                                But it is a truth you do not approach a show official as OP did and admits was not the correct action.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                • Duplicate post
                                  Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                  Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by BWW View Post
                                    But for some of the other posters, it appears this thread did nothing more than provide a great deal of amusement and provide a platform for attacking someone anonymously (the comments about Meds, and breaking out the popcorn and piling on, and so forth).

                                    I looked back at the history of several of these posters to see what they had posted in other prior threads, and words and labels like "loser" and "idiot" are thrown around quite liberally by them.

                                    Well, you add no value to the discussion with feedback like that, and you should ask yourselves why you are inclined to react that way. If life is less than you would like it to be be, or you are unhappy with things, then by all means go out and make a change.

                                    Sigh. I was very happy with the turn of things last night. Seemed the OP got back on track and was polite and interactive. I was surprised...in a good way. But then this nugget? Seriously?

                                    OP: As you put earlier, everyone needs constructive criticism: leave the pious little nuggets of judgemental "wisdom" out of your posts and you won't ruffle so many feathers. As many people have said, this board is an excellent source of information but doesn't suffer arrogance or preaching. Popcorn and pile-ons are rarely unwarranted.
                                    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                    Comment


                                    • Haven't read the whole thread, but BWW does seem like a person who is simply new to the sport and wants to actually support his daughter and learn the ropes.

                                      So, here is my advice to anyone who is new to our sport (honestly, this advice would probably apply to any sport):

                                      If you are attending a horse show and you have a concern, complaint, or even a compliment that you would like to voice......ASK someone (preferably someone in the show office) the following question:

                                      "Whom should I speak with about a concern/complaint/question that I have regarding the judge/steward/rules/scheduling/stabling/concessions/etc., etc?"

                                      If you always take this first step then you will be guided in the proper direction and will avoid confusion/faux-pax/frustration. Furthermore, by always ASKING before you ACT (especially while you are still new) you will quickly and painlessly begin to learn the rules, lingo, and culture of this sport.
                                      (fyi- For the record, you will never be directed to approach the judge- but I think you understand this by now.)

                                      As a lifelong hunter/jumper rider, horse owner, and the mom of a pony rider myself I can say that the sport of hunters and jumpers welcomes you and your daughter. Yes, ponies are very competitive but also VERY fun! Honestly, your daughter is several years away from being in the rated pony divisions so shows shouldn't be all that competitive or stressful right now. It's all about fun and learning at this stage, so hang in there and keep supporting your daughter like you are. And try not to take the sport too seriously yet. The life experiences that your daughter will gain are ones that she (and you together) will cherish forever and cannot necessarily be found outside of horse sports. Enjoy it!

                                      And for the record, I have been showing my entire life and I see NO problem with entering multiple divisions for which there are no cross-entry restrictions IF you are doing so for EXPERIENCE and not simply for ribbons (and the classes aren't over-taxing for your horse or pony). This is particularly true when you are talking about children/beginner type classes or schooling shows. The more times a child or new rider can get out there and experience being in the show ring the better...especially when the classes are mostly flat or x-rail classes because these aren't generally too hard on the horses. A little extra ring time gets kids excited, gives them valuable experience, and keeps them learning.

                                      So, if the horse show allows it, then a 4-year old has every right to be led around the GP Field in a lead-line class, regardless of whether they are also showing in the walk/trot division. Imagine what fun it is for a little kid to "ride" out into that big arena that she otherwise won't get to do until she is much older. It can be these kinds of fun/first experiences with horses and showing that keep kids interested and give them goals for the future.

                                      Good luck!
                                      Last edited by Elmstead; Jan. 15, 2013, 08:31 PM. Reason: clarity

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by HenryisBlaisin' View Post

                                        As for the cross-entering...you should stop that. Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally right. The lesson daughter could learn from having to ride at her correct level and not showing just for the ribbons is far, far more valuable and will serve her far better in life than any ribbon she earns in the leadline class. It sounds like you're more enamored with her showing on the Grand Prix field than with doing he honorable thing. You may not have meant to come across that way, but you did. Cross entering into a lower class than you are capable of just to get more or better ribbons or to be seen in the "right" ring is poor sportsmanship whether you're 4 or 54. How would you, as her parent feel if a kid who was showing in walk-trot-canter or jumping classes also entered the walk-trot against your daughter? My guess is that you'd think it was unfair and unsportsmanlike, and you would be right.
                                        I agree.....but to be fair, in this particular situation, I do not think he did wrong by entering the child in the lead line. It seems like at this show, the LL class is more of a fun formality type of class where everyone gets the same ribbon?

                                        I would like to encourage BWW to stick with COTH though. There is a vast amount of knowledge on this board and even the most experienced riders often ask for help/opinions/etc. I would like to caution him, however, that starting threads to ignite things is probably not your best method of learning
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                                        Comment


                                        • A lot of parents I know take their small children in the lead line classes at their first few shows, to allow them a chance to get in the ring on their pony without freaking out. Then, they can go alone in the walk/trot classes for ages 8 and under, with a little more confidence. For a small child's first few shows, I see nothing wrong with this. I'm sure that's why show organizers have this rule allowing it.

                                          Comment

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