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Judge with chip on shoulder?

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    It's interesting that the leadline comment I made is getting this much traction. Yesterday, she was the only one in the Leadline. And at the others she has done, she is almost always the youngest, seems like by several years, just based on appearance of the riders. These are AA and A shows, and as far as I can tell, except for shows like Devon and Harrisburg, each participant gets a blue ribbon. It is non-competitive, so no fees. But wow, a lot of very strong opionions here about that....

    Comment


    • #22
      BWW, I'm a little confused, was it the judge or the steward who ranted at the trainer and upset your daughter? Also, did you speak to the Steward or the Judge about it?

      In either case, in my opinion, you were out of line. I can completely understand why you would feel like you need to say something about behavior that caused your child to be upset, but, if you want to keep showing, you and your daughter are going to have to develop a thick skin and realize this kind of thing happens. In one of my first shows as an adult, the judge was sitting with a friend at ring side and critiquing (harshly) all the horses and/or riders as they were walking around outside the ring by their trailers, in the practice ring, etc.. I'm sure she didn't think I could hear her, when she remarked how much she hated horses that looked like mine. Half and hour later I was in a division she judged. I went into the first class, was pinned dead last, and dropped the rest of the division (after talking to my trainer). We did not talk to the judge, instead we went to the show organizer and voiced our opinion. Turns out, other people did the same.

      As for stewards losing their cool, you have no idea what that trainer did to cause the Steward to rant - not that that excuses their behavior, but they are people too and I've seen some pretty pushy and ignorant trainers out there. Again, you probably should have voiced your opinion to show management.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by MHM View Post
        And did you get permission from the show manager or the steward before you approached the judge to speak to him?

        If not, that is a HUGE faux pas. At a USEF show, it is absolutely against the rules, and against convention at any show.
        I echo this question. At a USEF show you can not talk to the judge without going through the steward, you shouldn't really be doing it until the show is over, and the judge can refuse to talk to you.

        But at a USEF show you can fill out a licensed official report and a few negative ones of those get into a judge's file and they do get reviewed by the licensed official committee.

        Comment


        • #24
          It's not a bother as long as you go through the correct protocol, and ask about your own performance, not others in the class.

          The correct protocol involves asking the steward to check with the judge, and going at a time that is convenient for the judge.

          If the judge has been judging all day without a break, and you decide to stroll up there on your own right when the judge has a two minute window of opportunity to use the rest room, believe me, that's a problem!
          Also, keep in mind that this "don't talk to the judge without talking to the stewards/show management first" thing is in the spirit of fairness to you and your fellow competitors.
          Adversity is the stone on which I sharpen my blade.

          Comment


          • #25
            You did fine becuase you did it THROUIGH the officed manager.

            Originally posted by Crazy4aOTTB View Post
            I don't mean to hi-jack the thread but I am also curious about talking to the judge. I spoke to the judge at one of my first shows this summer. I am new to showing and my trainer told me that I should ask about seeing the judges card.

            I was not asking to dispute anything but to get an idea of how they judge and what they look for. I ask the office manager who called the judge over at the very end after the show was over. She graciously reviewed two of my jumping rounds. The judge didn't seem upset but I did explain that I was wanting to see for the knowledge not that I was objecting.

            I was planning on possibly doing this again as it did help me understand a little better what the judge is looking for. Not just did they get the correct number of strides down the lines and get the flying changes. So am I going to get marked down by theses judges next time. Is it really a bother to them?
            Janet

            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

            Comment


            • #26
              Others have covered show protocol for handling these situations. Aside from that, IMO, this was a teachable moment for your 4-year-old. We should not be creating an artificial world for our kids where everything is rosy. It's like everybody making the team because you don't want any kid to be disappointed. Judge (or steward?) lost his temper. Explain that to the child and say that maybe they were having a bad day. Then move on. If kids never learn to deal with this kind of small stuff, they will never learn to deal with the bigger stuff. They need to learn coping skills -- that's where good parenting or support from good trainers comes in. Of course we want to protect our kids, but we don't need to shelter them from EVERYTHING that's unpleasant.

              Comment


              • #27
                I'm so confused now.

                OP, at the top of post #16 you wrote

                By the way, it was the Steward who had the rant, not the Judge
                I can't figure out if the rant you are talking about is the leadline rant, since the rest of your post addresses that, or if you are talking about the dressing down he gave to someone in front of your daughter. Which rant?

                I went back and reread your OP and this didn't help clear it up for me.


                I did not bring it to the attention of the show organizer, maybe I should have. We have shown in several of his shows, and will be showing there again in a few weeks. We are not complainers and are pretty laid back, but this guy really seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. Finally, yesterday afternoon, we overheard him complaining that kids who do Walk Trot should not be allowed to do Lead Line. Wow, is it really that big a deal? The show organizers certainly don't think so...

                Other posters had problems with judges on a power trip?
                Is the judge the one with the shoulder chip? Sorry, just confused. Wondering where a steward came in.
                "Aye God, Woodrow..."

                Comment


                • #28
                  So was it the judge or the steward you spoke to??
                  "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    My head hurts.
                    Adversity is the stone on which I sharpen my blade.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      Let me clear this up. It was the steward who said it, not the judge. I meant to say the steward, not the judge - my error, my error.

                      The steward just walked over unannounced and "goes off". Did the trainer do something eariler to raise his ire? I don't know, not that I am aware of. What I do know is that he needs to use some decency and common sense when going about his business - simple as that. He was wrong to act that way, and needed to be called out for it. More than one Dad there said he needed more than that, but people were just in shock about it more than anything.

                      I am not talking about a situation where a judge gave us fewer points than we thought she deserved. Hey, the chips fall where they do, and that's it. And of course the kids need to have thick skin, I agree 100% with that, but his rant was not directed at my child, but the trainer. Why would a seasoned professional (assuming he is, I don't know), seeing that a 4 year old is about to enter the ring, go over and make a scene in front of 20 people? Does he not realize that the child may get uneasy?

                      Some may say "that's life in showing", OK, but it made a lot of people very angry this weekend, not the least of whom her parents (myself and my wife).

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        If you are going to show in the hunter/eq ring, you are going to need a more chill attitude. Best rule of hunter showing: Sometimes you are robbed, sometimes you are the robber. It all evens out in the end. Quit worrying about what others are doing, and ride the best you can with the aim of making your horse, your trainer and yourself happy.
                        Rest in peace Claudius, we will miss you.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Stewards are hired by show management. You need to speak with show management if you felt the steward's behavior was inappropriate.

                          Stewards are also licensed by USEF. I am sure there is some type of form you can submit or somebody you can contact at USEF if you want to lodge a complaint against the steward.
                          "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by BWW View Post
                            We had a bizarre experience with a judge this weekend. This judge (who we had never shown in front of before) went off the deep end about something as my daughter was sitting on her pony at the endgate about to enter the ring (she is 4). He did it in front of us (rider and parents), the trainer (who his rant was directed against) and several kids in the barn and their parents.

                            ....

                            Afterwards, I approached the judge and asked him (nicely, I wasn't a jerk) in the future if there are any issues, to simply pull the trainer aside and deal quietly with her instead of making a spectacle. I described to him the effect that his rant had on my daughter, and he seemed completely dumbfounded and unable to understand, although he agreed to keep it more quiet if there is a "next time".

                            I did not bring it to the attention of the show organizer, maybe I should have. We have shown in several of his shows, and will be showing there again in a few weeks. We are not complainers and are pretty laid back, but this guy really seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. Finally, yesterday afternoon, we overheard him complaining that kids who do Walk Trot should not be allowed to do Lead Line. Wow, is it really that big a deal? The show organizers certainly don't think so...

                            Other posters had problems with judges on a power trip?
                            Boy this is entertaining! I believe you are trying to backtrack because everyone called you out on YOUR mistake of speaking to the judge. Why wouldn't your child want to go in the ring if it was the steward you had an issue with and NOT the judge? just saying...

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by BWW View Post
                              We had a bizarre experience with a judge this weekend. This judge (who we had never shown in front of before) went off the deep end about something as my daughter was sitting on her pony at the endgate about to enter the ring (she is 4). He did it in front of us (rider and parents), the trainer (who his rant was directed against) and several kids in the barn and their parents.

                              Whether he was right or wrong (technically) is not the issue (though people who overheard it said he was full of hooey). But I think what he should have done is pulled the trainer aside and discussed it with her, out of earshot of everyone else. Instead, my daughter heard the whole thing, raised voice and all, and thought she was doing something wrong. She then said she did not want to go into the ring, although she did go in after we talked about it and did just fine.

                              Afterwards, I approached the judge and asked him (nicely, I wasn't a jerk) in the future if there are any issues, to simply pull the trainer aside and deal quietly with her instead of making a spectacle. I described to him the effect that his rant had on my daughter, and he seemed completely dumbfounded and unable to understand, although he agreed to keep it more quiet if there is a "next time".

                              I did not bring it to the attention of the show organizer, maybe I should have. We have shown in several of his shows, and will be showing there again in a few weeks. We are not complainers and are pretty laid back, but this guy really seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. Finally, yesterday afternoon, we overheard him complaining that kids who do Walk Trot should not be allowed to do Lead Line. Wow, is it really that big a deal? The show organizers certainly don't think so...

                              Other posters had problems with judges on a power trip?
                              Lady, I hate to say it, but I think you are full of it. That's quite the brain fart to mistake a judge for a steward that many times in one post. And one more in the title.
                              "Aye God, Woodrow..."

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by ToTheNines View Post
                                If you are going to show in the hunter/eq ring, you are going to need a more chill attitude. Best rule of hunter showing: Sometimes you are robbed, sometimes you are the robber. It all evens out in the end. Quit worrying about what others are doing, and ride the best you can with the aim of making your horse, your trainer and yourself happy.
                                WORD.
                                Adversity is the stone on which I sharpen my blade.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  GoGrn, we are obviously sharing the brain today.
                                  "Aye God, Woodrow..."

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    OP - I hate to burst your bubble, because it sounds like you're pretty new to all this. When you attend shows long enough, you WILL see:

                                    Trainers going off on students
                                    Trainers going off on other trainers
                                    Owners going off on trainers and riders
                                    etc. etc. etc.

                                    It's a high stress environment - especially at that level. If an ill-timed hissy fit is enough to trouble your daughter (and yes, I know she is 4) then maybe you're in the wrong sport.

                                    Though I've seen some knock down drag outs at soccer games, basket ball tournaments, gymnastic events...have you seen Dance Moms??
                                    "I'm not strange, weird, off, nor crazy. My reality is just different from yours."
                                    ~Lewis Carroll

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Add me into the confused category...was the rant specifically about leadline and walk-trot cross-entering? Did the judge actually get down from his booth and single out your trainer? What happened that adds the steward into the mix?

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by BWW View Post
                                        We had a bizarre experience with a judge this weekend. This judge (who we had never shown in front of before) went off the deep end about something
                                        HUH??? Steward now? Even your title said JUDGE.

                                        At this pt I would be calling this a 'story' now!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by BWW View Post
                                          To be clear, I did not reprimand the JUDGE I simply asked him to handle his criticism a little differently. He was not even JUDGING her class, he just walked over to us. This JUDGE needs to develop some skills to learn how to deal with people. If I acted that way to my clients, out the door they would go, and I would have nobody to blame but myself. It's just basic human relations. I could not care less whether he is a JUDGE or not...we all pay good money and take the time to show, and he is not above constructive criticism, no more than any of the rest of us are when we fall short. As far as doing the Lead Line, it's a fun (and free) thing they do in the Grand Prix ring just before the big show begins and everyone is there watching. Why not do it? She has fun....
                                          This, which is post #9 on this thread, on top of the 4 times she called him a judge in the orginal post. I think we can assume he was the judge or OP needs to readjust her meds. Or realize you can't erase anything once you hit enter on the net.
                                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                          Comment

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