• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Shoulder fore

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Shoulder fore

    Loved watching the GM clinic, and the Deb Bennett portions too. They did lots of shoulder fore with GM and I got the impression from both GM and DB that it was a good exercise for straight.

    I hope I don't get sent to the dressage forum... just want the hunter version of this, light seat without a lot of collection.

    How the heck do you do a shoulder fore anyway? Yesterday, I came around the short end, then pretended I was going to go across the diagonal to get him pointed that way a little bit, with my hands a bit shifted towards the inside as if for turning. But then I went straight down the long side with lots of inside leg. Seemed to work ok and it did improve his turns later when I jumped him a bit.

    Any better advice? I will have my trainer help me too when she comes.

    My way seemed to work, but what I could not figure out was do you look the direction you are going (in my case straight down the long side) or do you look between his ears? Are your shoulders with his?
    Last edited by ToTheNines; Jan. 7, 2013, 12:00 PM.
    Rest in peace Claudius, we will miss you.

  • #2
    Look where you are headed (down the long side)
    Your shoulders are lined up with his.
    Your hips are lined up with his.
    stay even on your sitting bones, sitting slightly to the inside.
    Don't cross an indirect rein over the inside of his neck.

    Hope this helps

    Comment


    • #3
      instead of turning down the diagonal, try a small, 10-15 meter circle out of the corner before you ask for the shoulder-fore. Once you complete the circle, continue on the circle track but use your inside leg to send the horse down the longside instead of allowing him to continue on the circle track.

      Comment


      • #4
        You the right, basic idea. That's how I learned to do SF/SI (or, think of starting a circle but stay straight).

        You do need SOME connection. Make sure you have an outside rein, as you are supposed to be bringing the SHOULDERS in,not pushing the haunches out. I will almost THINK about bringing both reins to the inside (not really, but it helps establish the outside rein better), while using my inside leg. Be careful not to get too much inside bend. A little is good, but sometimes people get way into the inside rein and end up making the horse crooked (SF and SI are to help STRAIGHTEN the horse, really). Remember the horse should be moving on three tracks (you'll notice it less in SF). Do you have mirrors? I find them very helpful when working on lateral work, especially by myself.

        You can also do SF and SI on circles and through the short side, and also in your canter work. This is especially good if your horse wants to get crooked and throw there haunches in or pop their shoulder out.
        Amanda

        Comment


        • #5
          This is a good thread for me also.
          Though, I just want to clarify, inside leg creating pressure at the girth and outside leg slightly behind the girth?

          What is the purpose of outside leg behind the girth?
          If I imagine being the horse, I would think the outside leg would want my haunches to move away from the pressure like leg yield...?
          http://dotstreamming.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            I tend to keep a passive outside leg. Too much outside leg will turn it into a haunches in or, like you said, a leg yield. Usually it is on, and will be there to help keep the rhythm, but I don't move it back.

            You may find you need to move it back a touch if your horse overreacts to the inside leg and wants to fling their haunches away instead of bring their shoulders in on the track. But, generally, I find that starting with just a little shoulder fore, they quickly grasp the concept (I find SF and SI some of the easiest and most basic lateral work to teach, really...but I do know I struggle to explain it to the rider!).
            Amanda

            Comment


            • #7
              We do lots of this in my flat lessons, we first do a 10m circle to get the right position and then think about holding that position as you start down the long wall. Make sure you keep your inside rein open (no crossing over the neck) and keep a feel on your outside rein. Inside leg at the girth but not too much as it will turn it into a leg yeild. It's a slight movement, just enough to keep the back legs traveling straight down the wall and the front inside comes inside the track and the outside front now travels down the wall in front of the back inside (thus the horses shoulder has moved to the inside, not just a bend in the neck). I LOVE this exercise, especially for horses that fall to the outside!
              Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pryme_thyme View Post

                What is the purpose of outside leg behind the girth?
                If I imagine being the horse, I would think the outside leg would want my haunches to move away from the pressure like leg yield...?
                The outside leg is to keep the movement a shoulder-fore and not a haunches-out. The haunches should not go more outside than the regular track, with the shoulders being moved to the inside.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ActNatural View Post
                  instead of turning down the diagonal, try a small, 10-15 meter circle out of the corner before you ask for the shoulder-fore. Once you complete the circle, continue on the circle track but use your inside leg to send the horse down the longside instead of allowing him to continue on the circle track.
                  Ditto this.
                  The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                  https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Do a 10 circle, keep the outside rein connection as you continue down the rail, inside hand keeps flexion and INSIDE LEG is the active leg. Outside leg slightly back and guarding but really of all the aids this is the most passive.

                    In shoulder fore shoulder should just come off the wall, its a 2 1/2 track movement where SI has the shoulder at 45 deg angle and is a 3 track movement.

                    Do not cross the neck with the outside rein.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm a dressage instructor, but I can simplify the process for you.
                      For hunters it'll help get your horse on your outside rein and help with straightening.
                      A shoulder fore is the first step of a 20m circle, taken onto a straight line. When prepping use a 20m circle, no smaller or else your horse will either have to collect more than you like or motorcycle around on the shoulder (icky)
                      Try it coming out of a corner. Get your inside flexion so you can see your horses inside eye, make sure you've got a connection with the outside rein. Tuck your inside toe into your horses armpit so you're using your shin to get bend. Keep your shoulders in line with your horses and slightly weight your outside seatbone, and ask the shoulder to gently move off by feeling that outside connection in your oblique abdominal muscle.
                      Yes, per Dr Ritter, you weight the outside seatbone in shoulder fore and shoulder in.
                      www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                      chaque pas est fait ensemble

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Petstore has the definition correct. Shoulder fore (2 1/2 tracks) is the first step onto a 20 m circle, therefore there it is done with less bending than (three track) shoulder in (which is the first step onto a 10m circle). Shoulder is is done at an angle of 30 degrees. (And traditionally, at a very high level of collection when the horse can offer a huge degree of bend and axial rotation, s.i. can be done on four track.) In shoulder fore, when someone stands in front of you on the long side the inside hind shows between the forelegs (whereas in shoulder in the inside hind is 'hidden' behind the outside fore.

                        The reason it is for straightness is that it gives the rider control of the outside shoulder through engagement of the inside hind leg. By s.f.'s very nature it is softly collecting as well (renvers affects the outside hind).

                        A basis for this exercise is good use of circles (to 10 m) as well as CLEAR changes of bend in serpentines. (Remember GM was WELL grounded in dressage due to the long period of time he spent with Gunner Andersen, who also taught him a lot about jumping as well.)

                        In all (lateral work) the inside leg is somewhat closer to the girth and the outside is stretched down and back, which is active or passive depends upon the exercise; (when seen from above) the rider's shoulders are always parallel to horses shoulders and hips parallel to horses; and rider ALWAYS looks between the ears (in the case of s.f. lightly onto a 20m circle angle). In shoulder in the rider is 'inspiring' the inside hind by 'pulsing' the inside leg closer to the girth (keep down/reaction to calf). Because of the placement of the entire leg (outside leg back), inside leg closed to girth it feels as if the rider is more onto the outside seat bone/more erect. That said it is very important that the rider is sitting in the middle/not tilting or collapsing.

                        To start the exercise do a circle in the corner, horse active and in front of the inside leg, then thing a 'step onto the circle', but keep outside half halts. If horse comes off the rail or bends the neck too much then there is either too much inside hand (pulling backwards) or no outside connection. It is a play between the aids. Only do a few steps and then either go straight down the long side (or 'follow the angle of the bend' across the diagonal). Do another circle, and then start again.
                        I.D.E.A. yoda

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X